New car, stoopid question!

Discussion in 'Cars / Bikes' started by Jameen, Feb 5, 2005.

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  1. Jameen

    Jameen Regular Kustomer

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    Hey guys,

    Dont know that much about car engines so this wil probably sound stupid, but ive decided to go for a pug 306 1.6 xs M reg (hopefully) and was wondering if i would be able to put a turbo on this? or would it be really messy and complicated and hard.

    All i really want is that cool sound the dump valve makes lol! but im guessing that cant happen without the turbo?

    Cheers

    Jameen
     
  2. C14RKEY

    C14RKEY Registered Trader

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    why dont you go for the dturbo 306
     
  3. jon bda

    jon bda Mission From God...

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    Messy, complicated and hard...save some cash and get a 306 Rallye...
    :)
     
  4. C14RKEY

    C14RKEY Registered Trader

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    if you got the dturbo 306 you could have the dump valve noise you like and its only insurance group 5, so really cheap insurance
     
  5. Jameen

    Jameen Regular Kustomer

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    Diesel Urgh, Rallye Urgh (expensive insurance...no wait...wouldnt get insured lol!)

    So not really possible eh?

    Jameen
     
  6. Slamdog

    Slamdog Un-Banned!

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    any engine can be turbo'd but it is expensive. be better sticking a suprcharger on it instead.
     
  7. ojobson

    ojobson Donkey!

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    Speak to a company called pug performance motorsport, they are sumwhere off the m3 (about 45 mins north of southampton) they are the people to speak to about pug tuning - if its possible they will do it for you!

    http://www.pug-performance.com/

    They did my 205 - bodykit painted, new brakes, new dampers & springs, some engine mods (repairs really), single wiper conversion and it was only not much more than £1500. Then my brother crashed it :(

    The guy that runs the place is calleed collin. Top bloke, although can be hard to get hold off as they are always jam packed.
     
  8. Jameen

    Jameen Regular Kustomer

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    lol i swear superchargers are like way more than turbos! or from wat ive seen anyway...

    another stopid question then...do superchargers make the cool noise?

    Jameen
     
  9. ojobson

    ojobson Donkey!

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    They make a different noise, the saxo's i've heard with them make a loud rattlesnake kinda wooshing noise when you take your foot off the gas... its a little more discreet and way cooler!
     
  10. ojobson

    ojobson Donkey!

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    306 tuning page with prices Here

    guess you can only get turbo's on diesels, but supercharger looks plausable.

    Oh by the way, the people they work with claim to be the guys that invented the first proper diesel dump valves..
     
  11. Jameen

    Jameen Regular Kustomer

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    It says on the supercharger conversion that im guessing it goes into an s16/gti-6...wats an s16?

    Cheers

    Jameen
     
  12. brumster

    brumster Midland Muppet

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    To put a turbocharger (or supercharger, for that matter) onto a normally aspirated (ie. fuel injection or carburettor'd) car is more than simply a bolt-on job, and anyone who tells you any different is talking out their @rse, full stop.

    Firstly you need to drop the compression ratio of the engine right down, which normally entails replacement pistons and rods at least. On top of that, the extra stresses on the engine mean, realistically, you'll need new head bolts, bottom end and possibly improved oilways and cooling in order to make it reliable.

    Basically, unless you've got shed loads of money, but an engine that's made to turbo/supercharge in the first place, rather than trying to retrofit - it's just not sensible to the majority of people.

    Cheers,
    Dan
     
  13. brumster

    brumster Midland Muppet

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    That's be the engine that was in the Peugeot 306 S16 - it's basically a developement of the Mi16, but with a heavier iron block, and slightly more power. Fine in a 306 ;)
     
  14. AznXstazy

    AznXstazy New Member

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    just a word of advice if u dont no turbo charger has oil in them they are alot more of maintaince. supercharger just has to be changed once and thats like at 50,000 miles at least for my mazda, turbo u have to change the oil in it evertime u change ur oil it shares it with ur existing oil so u would need more and drain the old one from the turbo too, but a turbo is faster than a s/c and does make it sound alot nicer(bov) thats the wooshin noise the s/c cant do that but yea brumster is right u have to change alot of parts inside the engine to make it so its safe to drive the car on high boost but if u drive on low boost like in 5psi? on mazda it safe on 6 or 7 and we have 4cyl 2.0L idk how big ur engine is, so but its ur choice the s/c would b cheaper though hope that helps
     
  15. mr-white

    mr-white propane cooled

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    as soon as you drop a turbo in any car your insurance is gonna go up

    MW
     
  16. brumster

    brumster Midland Muppet

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    Errm.

    Turbochargers are spun up on the exhaust gases from the engine, therefore by their nature they get very hot. Therefore engine oil is used to cool them, and the additional heat means the oil itself needs to be changed more often. Turbocharged engines will often have additional cooling in the form of oil coolers.

    Superchargers are spooled off the engine crank (not directly; they're geared up through a pulley) therefore they don't get hot by comparison. This is why they don't put any extra requirements in terms of oil on the engine, and tend to be a bit more maintenance free.

    In nearly all situations, a supercharger is superior to a turbocharger in terms of power because a turbo needs to spool up before it provides useful boost - the exhaust gases need to be travelling at sufficient speed for it to be useful. This is why some turbocharged cars have a small degree of lag, and only perform well when "on boost". At very low revs, they're often as flat as a pancake.

    Superchargers on the other hand develop useful boost straight from the off, because they're geared directly off the engine. Typically they're better at low revs, but overboost at high revs and need to vent a lot of their generated boost.

    The "wooshing" noise from a turbo is actually the dump valve dumping excess boost pressure when manifold pressure suddenly drops (ie. changing gear) and actually means you're getting rid of the turbocharger's boost, rather than pumping it into the engine.

    Superchargers make a more mechanical, hissy noise when operating - it's actually much more sexy that a turbocharger's noise ;) more visceral, more scary, more business-like :D

    Watch the 240Z vid at http://www.darius240z.com and tell me you don't think superchargers rock ;)
     
  17. ojobson

    ojobson Donkey!

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    Dude thats awesome!

    Yeah, I agree with superchargers. I heard about one guy who spent over 12,000 trying to develope turbo's to go on saxo's and his car "blew up" as they simply get too hot. To run one reliably in one of those you would have to replace the whole fron't bumpre with a radiator. Or only drive it in winter... Think he got it working in the end but it always ran scary hot.

    Anyway, if it can be done, pug performance will sort you out.
     
  18. Jameen

    Jameen Regular Kustomer

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    So, sounds like a supercharger then, especially after looking at that video!

    That is actually a much sexier sound!

    Ill look into that one when i get the car then

    Cheers for your help guys!

    Jameen
     
  19. mr-white

    mr-white propane cooled

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    i thought...

    turbos produce more power but dont kick in till 3k revs and superchargers produce less power but is instant as its belt driven ?

    MW
     
  20. brumster

    brumster Midland Muppet

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    Sort of. There's no hard-set rule that says when you feel turbos "kick in". My 2.5 turbo-diesel kicks in at 1500rpm, but my long-departed Subaru Impreza used to have nothing below 2500. Big-turbo'd cossies used to never really get on full song until the 3's. A lot of factors decide when a turbo "comes in" - size and weight of turbo impellor, length of inlet tract, the way the designer intended/tuned the engine, etc.

    Superchargers don't necessarily produce less power, no. Take a look at top-fuel dragsters here in the UK and US. You will not find *one* serious competitor running a turbo - they'll all, without fail, have a big compressor bolted onto the top ;)

    You're absolutely right, though, because they're belt-driven, there's no spool-up time on them - the boost is right there, when you want it. Bosh ;)