Job Hunting

Discussion in 'Topical Discussion' started by Samsonite, Sep 13, 2013.

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  1. Samsonite

    Samsonite Mine's a frosty one

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    Hi,

    I don't know how many of you use LinkedIn, but I'm sure some must. You sometimes get these adverts for "interesting" articles at the top of the homepage and the latest one was an advert for a book about job hunting along with an article:

    http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130911212503-15454-10-things-job-seekers-must-do-to-get-a-better-job?trk=tod-home-art-medium_1

    I am fussy, but firstly this article has both spelling and grammar mistakes, but I mostly take offence to point 4, where it says "it is better to be under-paid than over-paid" - sorry but if you give people that advice then you are potentially saying that is is better to earn less money than you could earn because the lower-paid job involves you having to start from nothing and work your way up (with no guarantee of big money).

    What a load of bull! We work to earn money, regardless of what a hippy might say. We have bills to pay, therefore why would you prefer to be paid less to do a job than be paid more? Better to be under-paid than over-paid or another way to put it in layman's terms - better to get paid £20k to be a programmer than get paid £50k to be a programmer - that is the message. And this guy is a best-seller... hmm...
     
  2. Capa

    Capa Tamarian Orator

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    Hey.

    I don't use linked in, but really should. I think in this instance you're reading the article in the wrong light; I was unemployed for a long time and ended up getting hugely frustrated with the situation I was in to the point whereby I started my own business, fueled by my intense dislike of job rejections and firm belief that I could do the jobs that I was applying for. I personally think a resolute and structured plan to adhere to with plenty of pro-active steps may well be worth trying for many job seekers out there.

    I don't agree with how militant this guy is, and I think he's plain up wrong about some things, but it's better to have a firm plan than not.

    Regarding the issue that you have commented on - point 4 - you've got to take it from an unemployed person's point of view. Yeah, of course if you have two jobs on the table, one of which pays 50k and one 20, you take the one that pays 50. But the point he's making - I think - is that you don't want to be in the mindset of 'I won't get out of bed for anything less than 30', which a surprising amount of the unwashed hordes that frequent the Job Centre are.
     
  3. Samsonite

    Samsonite Mine's a frosty one

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    "Better to be underpaid than overpaid" clearly suggests that you have a job and that it is better to be underpaid for that job than overpaid. That's my main beef with that particular point. If you are unemployed then sure it's a different ball game and that advice does not even make much sense in this context. The article makes a statement about "getting a better job" and so is setting a context of being in employment already.

    Conversely, the advice I was given at a young adult from the most successful people I knew at the time was (and this is obviously slightly proverbial), "If you are offered a six-figure salary to stock the stationary cupboard, take it because the life you can provide for your family, the home, the pension, future, etc. makes job satisfaction seem a bit selfish and vain.". Two people who gave me similar advice recently retired at around 50 years old and are loving life pursuing all their various hobbies, spending lots of time watching their grandchildren growing up, etc.
     
  4. Archaon

    Archaon Eats, Drinks, Sleeps Kustom

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    I'm underpaid for what I do, particularly compared to my colleagues.

    It's not better.
     
  5. phil2715

    phil2715 Registered + Sale

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    Yeah, but if you are overpaid, the chances are that you will be the first to be considered for the chop when the company looks to trim the fat.

    If you're seen as great value for money, you'll have much better job security.
     
  6. latency

    latency Existentialist

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    I think I get what he's trying to say, he's just not good at conveying it.

    It's also not helpful to state how important referrals are, and then not suggest how to boost your referral chances.

    Personally, when I was unemployed, I solved it by brute force- fired a custom CV at EVERY possible job.
    When I got a call back, I had no idea who the person was, or what the job was, because I'd sent so many. Ended up driving to a private school, and thought 'School Tech? Yea I can do that...'

    These days I'm self employed as well... I only just earn enough to get by, but running my own life makes up for it.
     
  7. Capa

    Capa Tamarian Orator

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    The idea of taking a six figure salary for stocking a stationary cupboard is a no brainer for me, but then maybe I am a bit too mercenary. I'm underpaid by my thoughts, but I've been out of company employ for about five years, so I'm not too fussed at the thought currently. I daresay there will be a time when it will grind, but I'll enjoy the simple qualities of going to work every day whilst I can.

    Thinking about it I can't imagine any instance in which it would be 'better' to be underpaid on a personal level. True enough regarding the fact that you'll be first in line for the chop in theory, but if you're overpaid to such an extent that you are one of those making the decisions about who gets the chop, then you're golden.

    I did attempt the 'brute force' approach, but it didn't get me anywhere. Networking was the way I found this job, so his point is proved there I suppose.

    Personally, I can't deal with self-employment as the only income. It's too unreliable, and I hate having to work from home. I'm not disciplined enough on a daily basis to do it well. I can see myself returning to it in about 3-5 years though.
     
  8. Samsonite

    Samsonite Mine's a frosty one

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    The underpaid/overpaid thing is quite general and works on different levels. At my company there was somebody that was grossly overpaid - about 3 times the salary as people we were hiring to do the same technical job and the new people had more skills. During the recession, the fat was trimmed but what they did is rather than get rid of someone who cost 3 salaries and did not even work hard, the made him a manager and so he is slightly underpaid now in comparison to the managers! Some people do land on their feet...

    From my point of view, I am reasonably well-paid relative to most people, but I am still paid nowhere near as much as this guy, but I also got promoted at the same time, so now I am less well paid than the underpaid manager! Again, I am not paid badly at all, but it all becomes relative within your own company and sometimes within your industry. And I stand by the fact that being underpaid to do this more stressful job is a lot worse than doing the previous job, but I have done it to bolster my CV further and now can look at management jobs instead of technical.

    To add some further irony and this both condones and contradicts the article in equal measure perhaps... through hard work despite feeling underpaid within my own company, I was recently approached via networking and commendations from clients and asked if I was interested in a new job. This is slightly ironic due to proving that being underpaid for a good job does pay off, but if I was to accept the new job, it pays almost twice as much which would then be overpaid by the industry standards! So in a way, being underpaid is fine as a means to being overpaid...
     
  9. Samsonite

    Samsonite Mine's a frosty one

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    Following on from this (in the end I did take the new job), one cliché that seems to become increasingly true throughout a career is "It's not what you know, it's who you know" - well actually this is a rubbish statement - you really do need to know what as well as who in the majority of cases.

    In reality it is probably the case that the person who gets someone they know a job has had the wool pulled over their eyes about their abilities. It rarely ends well though if someone cannot do the job - on rare occasions, someone can learn very quickly if they have the aptitude and end up growing into the job.

    "Who you know" is very useful in addition to being competent and I would suggest that while working through a job you should take every opportunity to "network" with people in your chosen field because you will be surprised at what opportunities can appear at a later date. Obviously networking opportunities will vary depending on your job, but in most cases you can go to conferences of some kind - this is a great place to meet people, usually at the drinks and socialising part. It is definitely good to talk and with something like LinkedIn, you can add people to your network of professionals (in the olden days, it would be exchanging business cards - which still happens, but LinkedIn will get you much further - hiring companies do trawl through LinkedIn profiles and contact people directly about jobs on a daily basis).

    Another thing that is worth doing is to ask your company to do something for you - e.g. you could find a relevant conference and make a case for why it would benefit the company if you went - ask them to pay for it. Reasons for going could be: learn about a technology that would be beneficial to the company or maybe to network with people who use a particular technology that your company uses and share experiences.

    It is a funny game in that companies can pay for you to further your career and ultimately be more attractive to other employers, but at the same time if your company keeps supporting your career growth you will probably stay longer - then they have to decide to pay your more, promote you, etc. or risk losing their investment in you. I stayed at my last company for over 6 years and they developed my career pretty well, but it was in the last year that they were starting to reward people for the wrong reasons (e.g. threatening to leave, giving into demands) and the way managers handled things put me off staying there any longer...

    "It's what you know AND who you know" - that's the way forward I think. Learn skills, work hard, network with people - eventually these three things will build up and in most cases will open doors for you.

    I seem to be turning into a LinkedIn author, despite starting this thread to deplore such posts. No idea why I am posting this stuff here either - but it feels therapeutic to type stuff out sometimes and I like these forums :)