which CPU do I need for shuttle?

[mjb]

Which (amd Socket 939) CPU do I need for shuttle ?

I thought shuttles do not need heatsink and fan because they have built in heatpipe? however this:
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5655.html
says it includes heatsink and fan? do I need one without?

Also is this Newcastle or Winchester? I think I would prefer the latter, I assume that the fan would cut in less often if it takes less power?

Also since I read that the 4200+ will be released next week should I wait a week in case the other versions are lowered in price? Also is it true that stepping E is not compatible with NForce3 or 4?

Martin

[Lomax]

Originally Posted by mjb

Which (amd Socket 939) CPU do I need for shuttle ?

I thought shuttles do not need heatsink and fan because they have built in heatpipe? however this:
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5655.html
says it includes heatsink and fan? do I need one without?

CPUs generally come with a heatsink and fan as not everyone wants to install them in a Shuttle. Shuttles have their own cooling systems (I.C.E.), which are very effective. Basically, you will have to buy a CPU with heatsink and fan and then discard/save/sell them.

[Rqyteqto]

You will need an A64 CPU, any one will do. As long as its a 939 socket. Right now, it appears the 3200 is the sweet spot.

Shuttles do include a proprietary built-in heatsink and fan assembly called ICE (Integrated Cooling Engine) which is extremely efficient. So you don't need to buy a HSF for you CPU, however, the retail packages, which include a heatsink/fan) also include a 1 year warranty and are often very little more so its generally a better deal. You can use the HSF that comes with the CPU as an interesting paperweight.

As to Newcastle or Winchester, no definitive way to tell other than asking Kustom, though I am pretty sure the 4000 is Winchester. It does use a tad less power. Your fan noise will be heavily dependent on what other components you use. Also, what Shuttle are you planning to use this in? Both the SN95G5 and the SN25P have excellent coolihg systems which you can control quite effectively with SpeedFan, a freeware program. The main fans are PWM and fully programable and all fan headers are 4 wire PWM compatible.

I do not believe there is any problem with the E stepping, though you may have to do a BIOS upgrade. That could be a bit sticky if the only CPU you have is the stepping E. I don't think that's been fully worked out yet. It may be Shuttle will have to make available a replacement BIOS eprom.

[mrochester]

The 4000+ uses the ClawHammer core. The cooler running Winchester is available in 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ flavours.

[mjb]

Thanks very much for your replies, which clarify the heatsink/fan issue, this was confusing me.

However you have got me worried about another issue, you mention that the fans are controlled by SpeedFan, I am planning to use Linux and after a lot of searching on the web I get the impression that there is no Linux alternative to this without some serious hacking.
But I did find this review -
http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=653&pid=2473
which has some screenshots of the BIOS which shows that the BIOS can be set to Smart Fan or Noise Control Ulow, low, mid or Full. Hopefully I can set Noise control to full? I assume these CPUs have thermal protection so the worst that can happen is that the CPU will shut down? Is this correct? I am not planning to overclock.

About the CPU version, things seem to be changing quite rapidly at the moment, what I would like to do is get a cheap CPU at the moment and then upgrade later when I need more power, is this possible. I get the impression that the CPUs are attached using thermal compound? Does this set hard? Is it possible to separate the CPU from the heatpipe at a later stage? Or should I get the best processor I can afford now?

Martin

[mrochester]

The fans in a Shuttle are controlled by the BIOS so you should set it on the lowest setting and get on with it. When the processor reaches a certain temperature, the BIOS will speed up the fan so as to keep it adequately cooled.

[Big Adam]

Originally Posted by mjb

I get the impression that the CPUs are attached using thermal compound? Does this set hard? Is it possible to separate the CPU from the heatpipe at a later stage? Or should I get the best processor I can afford now?

Thermal compound does not set hard although it can get quite sticky but it is easily removed. (Thermal epoxy is different.)

The compound is not used to 'attach' the CPU to the heatsink. This is achieved by mechanical means, either clips or screws. The compound is used to fill in the microscopic imperfections between the CPU and heatsink mating surfaces, thus improving the thermal transfer.

There are plenty of guides on how to apply thermal compound (just google) but the golden rule is less is more. A small grain of rice size amount evenly spread on the CPU is good general advice.

However, if you are simply going to put your Shuttle together and enjoy it and not bother with overclocking and all that nonsense, forget the compound. The Shuttle ICE heatsink will be supplied with a thermal pad on the bottom. Hardcore users normally clean this off and replace it with compound but it does the job and you may as well use it! You'll need to use compound if you replace the CPU at a later date or, for whatever reason, remove the heatsink and re-seat it.

[Rqyteqto]

Yes, a corection of what I wrote the other day, the fans are basically controlled by BIOS, a routine Shuttle calls SmartFan, however, its fairly limited in what it offers as control, providing some rather broad thermal zones and responses. For Windows users, SpeedFan can be a much better alternative but unfortunately, there isn't anything I know of for users of other OS.

[Rqyteqto]

A clarification on Big Adam's post. Some Shuttles may come with a thermal pad, my SN95G5 and those of others I have come across, come with a small tube of thermal compound. Based on research and the comments and recommendations of experienced users, I chose to use Arctic 5 instead. How much better is it, I don't know. Others with reported expertise maintain it provides a 2C to 4C drop in temps. My research and the data available supports those claims as at least possible.

My take, hey, its a $1500 investment which I use 12 hours a day to make a living as well as providing a great deal of my entertainment, so I feel spending $8 for a tube that will suffice for dozens and dozens of applications is a reasonable expense.

Normal Arctic 5 does not harden, though there is a product by Arctic that does called Ceramique, which I believe describes it adequately.