Fanless PSU - my impressions

[Creosote]

Got my system back from Kustom today having been fitted with the Fanless PSU, a replacement for the ever noisy "Silent" Zalman PSU.
I'm afraid I can't give any technical volts and amps perceptions 'cos errr.... I don't have any.
From a performance perspective it appears to work fine! Its long term robustness isn't known but I feel its probably gonna be ok.
The bit I, and probably you, are interested in is its silence. Yep, can't hear a thing, not even a low electrical hum or anything.
The heatsink protrudes out of the back about 3cm but its unobtrusive and looks ok.
The heatsink gets hot, hot so you couldn't hold it for more than a few seconds but not so hot that its burns when touched. The case area around the PSU is getting quite warm, and I would think that a decent conductive case probably is a must for this PSU, mine is a Al Coolermaster so thats ok here.

As to overall heat in the case effects. Before fitting I had the Zalman PSU with a 80mm case fan switched down to 7v running VERY slowly, and a fan on a bracket pointing at the Zalman flower CPU heatsink on a fanmate switched to its lowest fan speed. No other fans or anything. The Zalman PSU temps were I forget but I did measure them and I think were 27C in and 37C at exhaust. Temps were on idle around 33C M/b and 39C CPU, on full, heavy sustained load that went up to 37C and 54C.

Now after fitting the fanless PSU we have replaced the case fan witha "silent" Zalman 80mm fan (that makes a racket seems a common theme with Zalman or elee their definition of "Silent" is somewhat different to mine), still have a fan ppointing ta the CPu and added a 80mm fan lower down in the case blowing air from the front intake at the graphics card and case fan to help general airflow thru the case.
The 3 fans are connected to fan controller and I am running them all on their slowest setting to have the system as quiet as possible. Idle M/b temp is now 32C and CPU 45C. On load the MB temp goes up to about 38C and the CPU to 60C. Running the fans full blast (with earplugs) the idle temp if the CPU only drops by about 3 degrees, but on load nearer 8 degrees.

My conclusion is that a PSU fan does handle a lot of air venting from the case and makes quite a contribution to keeping temps down. Thomas advises me that 60C is ok for the CPU, and I looked on Intel site and it said something about the CPU reducing the load itself when it reaches 72C. SO I am probably *just* ok with running the fans at lowest speed. Please tell me I am !!!

As to the overall result of all this is that the system is running hotter but isnt that much quieter really. Its VERY quiet but far from the nirvana of a Silent PC. I cant run the fans at more than about one third speed else it does get very noisy, I should add the noise, well most of it just being air-flow noise, not fan revolving noise.

Conclusion. I think the fanless PSU is *probably* the way to go if you have an Aluminium case and can manage temps inside.


BTW If it has relevance my system is a Coolermaster 110 (?) with 3Ghx P4 800 bus on Asus PC4-800 M/b, 1 Gig memory, Radeon 9700, Maxtor HD in silent drive, with Zalman heatsinks on CPU and Radeon.


I am afarid I am not very techical so can't answer any technical questions about the power loads etc but am happy to try and give impressions etc on the PSU.

Cheers
Joe

Here:s the PSU Heatsink at the back of the case:
http://www.joe-davies.com/psu.jpg

[Nick2k3]

Damn I like the sound (pun intended :p) of that fanless PSU :cool:

When will this store be getting them in stock?

I've been looking at the Zalman silent :rolleyes: PSU for a few days now and after reading some of the comments on this PSU I think I'll leave it :eek:.

I've just bought a new Q-Tec 400W quiet PSU and although it's not 100% silent (27db) it is 100 times better than the generic PSU the case came with but..... it's not enough :mad:.

So, I think one of those fanless PSU will be on my list if the price is OK and I can get hold of one soon :D

I need it for my apache linux server (P3 600, 512 meg of PC100 RAM - nothing too taxing for the PSU) and have volt modded the CPU fan to 7V so it's running pretty silent.

Just for added measure I've stuck the PC in the cupboard and with the q-tec PSU I can sleep fine with the PC on BUT, if I listen carefully I can hear the PC running.... and I DONT (want to hear it)!

I'm 100% certain it's the PSU fan I can hear so I want this fanless one now!!!! :D

Can't wait, the idea looks good - but I hope it will be OK for use in a cupboard that wont get much (if any) air flow... :confused:

Thanks!

[Creosote]

Just be careful.
While I am happy with the fanless PSU you lose the venting of the fanned PSU and have to replace that with something i.e. a case fan. I'm finding that 95+ of the sound is coming from the sound of air-flow, not the sound of fan blades.

With the fans all truned down to their minimum speed on the fan controller the system is far from silent but its not an unpleasant sound, though I doubt I could go to sleep with it!

[LoneWolf]

Its interesting to hear that about the Zalman PSU because according to a lot of other users experiences and reviews I've read, the Zalman can be described as one of the quietest air-cooled PSU's on the market today. I haven't had the personal pleasure/displeasure of seeing/hearing
a Zalman in action but I tend to believe the majority over the minority.

[Alan]

Well I'm one of them who think it's damn quiet. If I'm wrong then I really do have something to worry about with my hearing:confused:

[Creosote]

Originally posted by Alan
Well I'm one of them who think it's damn quiet. If I'm wrong then I really do have something to worry about with my hearing:confused:

I doubt there is anything wrong with your hearing Alan!

But maybe with your reading and comprehension. Zalman claim that at certain temps its is SILENT and make a big thing about that with DBa etc on their website. Its quiet, definitely, silent - no.
Quiet isnt silent and I am buggered if I am paying for something that claims and offers silence which isnt.
Their fans are also noisy.

[Alan]

I have no experience of their fans so I'll take your word for it but I believe that "silent" has a particular meaning in relation to electronic equipment. It does not mean the complete absence of sound but refers to thresholds of hearing.

If I remember right, sound levels under 25dBA qualify because you cannot resolve a specific sound at that level unless all other sources of sound are removed.

So, I take "silent" claims to mean 25dBA and under. Until I got the new motherboard and gfx, none of my noise sources exceeded 25dBA and, in a silent house, I couldn't hear my machine from the next room with the door open. When, sitting next to it, I switched it on, the only way I could tell it was on - at least for the first few seconds, - was the blue power LED.

When I played games I could hear it quite clearly, after stopping gaming - but that's understandable.

I suppose I would like a totally noiseless machine (excepting the sound of heads reading or writing - that's allowed) but until such time as I'll put up with the reduction in performance required, I'll put up with the coy definition of "Silent".

[efcoins]

Make sure you do not overload it.

You have a ProSilence 350W, but 350W is just a part number it does not stand for 350Watts. It is rated at 170W max, which is not much.

I hope Kustom did not sell it to you as 350Watts

see review
http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=90&page=2

[Big Adam]

SilentMaxx's own website seems to disagree with you. It definitely states 350 Watts.

Fanless PSU Specs (http://www.silentmaxx.de/nt_prosilence_fanless.php)

and the fanless Pro is rated at 420 Watts

Fanless Pro (http://www.silentmaxx.de/nt_prosilence_fanlesspro.php)

Kustom can only go by the manufacturer's claims.

BA

[Creosote]

My system seems stable, and it has the usual gear in it so I guess the fanless PSU is chucking enough power out.

Alan: yes, I think we agree. Semantics and esoteric claims or definitions by manufacturers on the definition of "silent" are a complete irrelevance to me. If I can hear it then it aint silent.
The fine chaps at Kustom, and myself have put a lot of effort into trying to build me a silent system but it really does seem an impossible task at the moment. The case needs some sort of venting and then whatever you do results in air movemen sound. Even with the fans themselves not making any "fan" noise there reamins the air movement "whoosh" type sounds. The CPU also generates so much heat that even with the side of the case off it still needs some sort of fan air movement else it gets too hot.

A floor or desk standing PC that isnt locked away in a cupboard next door appears that it will always generate some noise/sound that is AUDIBLE to the person using it. VERY QUIET is possible and my system is very quiet and I think yours is also. Its so much nicer having it quiet but it would be even nicer if it was silent!

Joe

[Alan]

We are singing from the same Hymn sheet!

I take your point that you aren't getting fan noise but just the sound of air movement. It's the mechanical fan noise that gets me. The gentle sussuration of air doesn't bother me.

BTW, removing your case side would normally be of no help unless you had air flow in the room itself or a significant temperature gradient between your room temperature and ambient case temperature - which you wouldn't get in good summer weather.

[Creosote]

Alan:
If air noise doesnt worry you at all then the route I have gone would probably suit you very well. I mean there is NO noise from anything mechanical that I can detect and I am picky! Oops tell a lie, I can just hear the heads on the HD, but very faintly and it certainly isnt unpleasant.

It may well be possible to build a quieter free standing PC than I have but I do have some doubts.

[Alan]

I doubt as well!

Going to the 3GHz CPU has raised the internal temperatures a lot. I am currently having to put up with the IC7-G North Bridge fan which is not noisy for its size but is audible . Since losing the Zalman ZM80-HP on my 9500 Pro, I have gained the fan on a 9800 Pro but since it is quieter than the north bridge fan it hasn't added to the noise.

I can live with it the way it is just now 'cos although it is louder than previously (probably then it was very close to yours) it is still so much quieter than I used to have.

I don't think I hear the hard drive at all but the Pioneer 106S slot drive is a real noisy bugger!

I keep on wondering if the Zalman north bridge heatsink would do the job but I'm worried about the tempertures it might develop, the bracket for the fan won't fit the Zalman and I don't fancy epoxy, and the Zalman 7000 hangs over the north bridge fan by a little and I don't think it will fit anyway!

Oh well!

[Creosote]

The Mb that Kustom fitted to mine has a Nothbridge heatsink built on, maybe you could try that one.
I get Mb temps of between 33 and 39 but its been hot in here since it came back and I guess generally it will be a couple of degrees lower than that. Thomas advised not to worry about MB temps, so I don't :)

[conan]

Alan, have you thought about replacing the standard northbrdge fan with a decent quality 40mm fan? I tried this and it worked a treat. I have a spare with no tail you can have if you want. It is inaudible at 7v and produces a decent airflow (I think better than a stand NB fan), as it is 15mm deep.

[Alan]

Thanks Conan, could we leave that on hold for the moment?

It's just that the Abit uses an unusual fixing arrangement for the northbridge HSF and I'll have to take it apart to see if that extends to the fan.

Thanks anyway:D

[conan]

np Alan, if you want a go at it sometime give me a shout:)

[zealot]

Will this fit your north bridge and your cpu fan i think its the new zalman, so it dont foul the fan and the heat pipe zalman graphics card cooler
http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/0311/NB47J_b2.gif

[Tom]

That's much purdier than the original!

Not sure if either would fit on my motherboard mind you... :rolleyes:

[DJ Slaven]

ugly mutha .....

[Alan]

Same problem as the old one. The current NB heatsink and fan sit on a rocker type thing rather than the traditional two holes at either side. Worth investigating though - and a much better colour than the old one:D

[blackstar]

just fitted the fanless PSU, its good :D

altho, the 12v rail is quite low (11.8V, as opposed to the 11.98 of my older enermax) its not causing instability - it may on an overclocked system, though.

the Lian Li power supply back plate doesnt fit it - anywhere i can get one from, before i attack mine with a hacksaw?

also, be aware that it has four screws holding on its case - they are *very* tight to fit into my Lian Li case.

overall, its a nice product but im not sure its as well finished (screws, back plate non standard fit) as i'd hoped for the money, but it does what it says - silent.
case temps nominally higher, 2deg - CPU, rather a lot higher, about 5 deg, not helped by my four 7v papst fans (oh well, its quiet so i'm happy :) _

[mrochester]

The only way I can see PC's turning silent when considering various fans is the development of some *huge* heatsink for the CPU that doesn't require any fan at all. Perhaps a case that uses a similar cooling method as the Tranquil ITX cases with ridged side pannels that increase surface area. Somehow, the *huge* heatsink would attach to both side panels inside the case and that's all that would be required. You'd also then use one of those Zalman silent VGA coolers and a Silent PSU.

[blackstar]

i think Zalman are prototyping a case like that - theres a thread about that here somewhere :D

[zealot]

The only way I can see PC's turning silent when considering various fans is the development of some *huge* heatsink for the CPU that doesn't require any fan at all how about the Heatlane Zen Fanless CPU Radiator for the p4 goes upto 2.8 ghz

[mrochester]

Haven't heard of that before...? Got a link?

[zealot]

yep here you go heatlane (http://www.tsheatronics.co.jp/zen/english/ncu1000_e.html) you can all so buy it from quiet pc

[blackstar]

cool! theres a passive heatsink for the Opteron too, OCZ's Eliminator K8 - can't find it in UK though (yet)

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/heatsinks/Eliminator+K8

http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/products/heatsinks/b/eliminatork8.jpg

[gb115]

yeah, you'll still need some airflow through the system though.

my setup was previously a zalman all copper flower cooler on a 2.8Ghz P4, Zalman Northbridge Heatsink, and fanless GPU on a 9700 Pro. with a fanless PSU

ran very quietly

but also very hot

in fact too hot, when I stress tested it it would overheat and crash

the high system temps could have been the sound insulation I added to try and reduce the HD whine. I'd stay away from the insulation for a low airflow system.

now moving to watercooling...

[DJ Slaven]

they are in the uk , my friend has one on his s-budy and its totaly rubbish. On starting up the temp of the cpu was at 70oC . We had to mod it and put a 92 mm fan on top to keep it cool . Not the best heat sink at all.
i have just taken my x-dream off my 2gig over clocked to 2. 6 amd xp thurabred and replaced it with a coolermaster aero 7 lite it has a wicked fan controler u can fit into ur floppy bay and even at full rpm the nose level is realy realy low .
my temps are 33oC loaded. 31 oC idel which is pritty damb good , :cool:

[blackstar]

you should publish a 3dmark 2001 and 2003 project with a Tbred ~ 2.6GHz :D

in dual channel? thats impressive for an Aero7+, post links to the project :)

[Milhouse]

This is in reply to a previous post in Product Suggestions (http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=76111#post76111) stating that the Silentmaxx 350w PSU appear to suffer from poor regulation of the 5v/12v lines, with voltages dropping as low as 4.5v/11.5v. However, this is (just) within the specified tolerances of the PSUs - +/-10% regulation on each line.


Actually the machines have been quite stable, the only exception being the DDS tape drive.

This is what I have running using two 350w passively cooled PSUs:

Machine #1

1 x AMD Athlon XP 3200+
1 x SLK-900U Heatsink with 92mm fan
1 x Abit NF7-S v2.0 motherboard
1 x Abit GeForce 4 video card
2 x 512Mb OCZ PC-3500 DDR-RAM
1 x Soundblaster Live! Platinum sound card with 5.25" Live! bay

2 x Seagate Baracuda 7200.7 SATA 120Gb drives
1 x Pioneer DVD-ROM drive
1 x Lite-on 52x CD-R/DVD-ROM drive
1 x DigiDoc 5
1 x Floppy drive
5 x 80mm fans


Machine #2

2 x Pentium III 1Ghz CPUs
2 x Taisol Heatsinks and 80mm fans
1 x Abit VP6 dual processor motherboard
1 x Hercules GeForce 2 GTS video card
3 x 256Mb PC-133 RAM
1 x Soundblaster 1024 sound card
1 x IWill Ultra-Wide SCSI controller
1 x Adaptec 1210SA SATA Raid controller
1 x Intel Pro/100 Dual Ethernet Network controller

2 x Seagate Baracuda V SATA 120Gb drives
1 x Panasonic LF-D101 SCSI DVD-RAM drive
1 x Panasonic LF-D521 IDE DVD-RAM/DVD-R drive
1 x HP SureStore DDS-3 SCSI tape drive <--- Disconnected due to fluctuating +5/+12v power
1 x DigiDoc 5
1 x Floppy drive
4 x 80mm fans


I've no idea what the total power requirements are for each machine but the Silentmaxx PSUs appear to be up to the job of running them 24x7 under full load, the only issue being the fluctuating +5/+12v which resulted in the DDS tape drive being endlessly powered on then off again as the regulation on the +5/+12V lines rose and fell. :(

Fortunately I rarely use the DDS drive these days backing up to the DVD-RAM drives so it was a no-brainer disconnecting the tape drive, and all has been well ever since :)

I did have instability issues with Machine #1 which I'd overclocked to 2500Mhz with increased vCore voltage but reverting this back to defaults cured that problem (it had been stable at 2500Mhz with a previous active cooled 400w PSU).

Graeme: I hope you have mentioned to Silentmaxx about the poor voltage regulation and maybe future units won't suffer from this problem. :D

[blackstar]

Interesting. I have had rather more instability since installing the PSU - not good really.

[gb115]

boohoo, my fanless 350 blew up somehow. just as I was doing well at counter strike too.

on watercooling

moved to water cooling - ah much better, just a low thrum from my pump - almost inaudible, when the fans are off.

might upgrade my pump to get lower temps, and reduce the fans further.

fans only kick in at high temps - i.e. gaming etc.