Question.

[Zozart]

Okay, XHTML isn't XHTML unless it is valid, right?

But what if a website writes valid XHTML, but some parts of the website are invalid and there is nothing the website can do about it.. An example of this would be if the website has to display advertisements. These advertisements often use un-changable Javascript which is invalid.

Is it fair then, to say that the site isn't good XHTML?

I wish there was a web-browser that only showed valid websites, that would be cool. :)

Oh, one last question. What's your favourite Doctype? :D
Mine is XHTML 1.1 Strict, because it so readily encourages the use of CSS which I love.

[abe]

A site isnt valid XHTML because its got Javascript in it.

Only way to validate the supposed XHTML is to rewrite the way adverts are displayed. Adverts are horrible anyway :)

As for doctypes I use XHTML 1.0 Strict.

[Zozart]

Well, you can write Javascript which validates. In fact Javascript is (I think) the only way to open a new window whilst still having valid XHTML 1.1 (or 1.0 Strict, I think), since the target attribute is depreciated.

But for some sites they cannot edit the way the Adverts are displayed, nor can they get rid of them altogether, and yet the rest of their code is nice and valid. I think in cases like this it is unfair to say that their site is horrid and invalid, just because of one unremovable advert.

[abe]

And popups are bad.

Its not just how the code is written, its also how the site is presented. Popups have a terrible reputation

If you really need adverts - build them into the site using as compliant code as possible. My browser wont moan - but I will if I see "W3C compliant site" braggings and find out it isnt.

[Zozart]

I don't mean Pop-Up adverts Abe, I mean legitimate usage of a pop-up, such as an information box or to show a large version of an image in a pretty way.

[abe]

Yeah but popups in general are bad.

I for one cannot view these type of things without ripping the source apart. Whats wrong with simplicity?

[Zozart]

Hm, have you ever ordered off of Ticketmaster? It's the only example I can think of right now, but when you are ordering you can get extra information about certain things by clicking links and getting small pop-up windows. That is perfectly fine, since you would moan if you ended up having to start your order just because you wanted to find out more information abotu the venue :)

[abe]

Never used Ticketmaster, but sticking *everything* on the same page would please me.

[Zozart]

Yes, that could work, but it would clutter up the order page and make it harder to use. I can only speak for Mozilla here, but it's great to block pop-ups and then allow sites to use them if you want. :)

[abe]

Maybe its just me...

oh, and all popups are denied here - all :)

[Zozart]

I would do that, but I need pop-ups for some things (downloading off Fileplanet) and they are very useful sometimes (forum pop-up PM reminders etc).

[stdPikachu]

Not tried it meself, but apparently you can do popups using nothing but CSS (1 and 2 IIRC).

[Zozart]

Hm, the only pop-up's with CSS that I know of are the ones where you just open an element somewhere on the site (maybe for navigation - you hover over a link and a description appears below it etc). I don't know if it can do brand new windows.