Loosing our Identity??

[PJ Matthews]

Im a middle classed traditionally Tory voter educated in forces schools which has left me pretty much your average PeeJ. I feel an attatchment to my Welsh and Irish heritage but in paticular my being British. What makes us British? Many things, a trip across the channel highlights just how different we are from our neighbours.

My main issue is the Euro. For about the past 5/6 years now we have been shoved information from certain firms, government and even the primeminister himself saying that if we arn't in it, it could lead us to financial ruin.

Lets take a hop across the channel to Germany and France. Unemployment is running at about 9 % with a euro land average of about 8.5%. Lets compare this to the UK where unemployment is about the 5.8%. Whats causing this? The economy has slowed across Euro land but where as we can drop interest rates to encourage borrowing to boost the economy the members of the Euro can't because of their single currency tied to them all. Unfortunately as they are finding out whats good for one country isn't good for all. This has generally lead to part of Europe going into recession (generally accepted this is where France and Germany now are), whilst our country remains relatively boyant. Giving up control of our currency would lead to this. If Tony Blair makes the decision for us to join, the enconomy would be delibertly slowed by boosting interest rates to bring our economy inline with that of Europes. This means less money in your pockets, and fewer jobs.

Besides the economic argument there is that of our identity. The pound means an awful lot to the majority of Britians. Its not dow nto anyone reason but the most commonly refered to will be the sense of indentity it gives us. We are proud to be British even if our natural British 'reserve' has the better of us. Recent Polls on Euro land proved this. The suprising part was that those polled only trusted the U.S slightly more than Euroland to have our economy in its interests.

I urge all of you to make your voice heard against the Euro and for those who are all for it to give us your reasons why. Remembers its not down fighting for trade with Europe. GM recently decided to make the new Astra (2004) in the UK when it could of choosen any one of its factories on the continent.

Enougth of my rablings - do you want to keep the pound?

[abe]

Yes I think the pound should be left.

I get a bit of a shock when I look when buying stuff, then realise im looking at the euro price, with the pounds being a smaller number.

I have a great untrust for Government and will never just join the bandwaggon especially on stuff like this.

I also think class structures are a load of b*ll*cks, but thats for another time.

[PJ Matthews]

Id agree class structure is less important but it is like it or not still there, only the margins are highly blured and theres more than a simple upper, middle and lower class - infact these names arn't that suitable anymore. Again we'll leave that for another discussion :).

One thing many will notice is that prices have risen in Euros, it hasn't just been a straight swap in currencies for nations. Not sure why this happened, but the UK is actually cheaper for many things now (even some cars :o).

Keep um coming.

[conan]

For my work I have to travel a lot and spend a lot of time in Europe, France, Spain, Belgium, Germany and Holland. I have to say that from a purely selfish point of view the Euro makes my life an awful lot easier and for those who travel then Britain joining the Euro would make life even easier. But, this is not a good reason to join. I saw in many countries the rise in prices that came with the Euro, everything was rounded up as you would expect.

Talking to people when I visit customers on the continent the opinion varies from country to country on whether it was a good move. The wealthier countries such as France, Germany, Holland, Belgium will tell you publicly that it was good because they all want to be good Europeans. When you get out at night, have a few beers and put the world to rights there are usually mumblings about how the poorer countries such as Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy have dragged down the economies of the Euroland nations.

My own view is that this is the reason everybody in Europe wants us to join, we will add more to the economy in europe than we will take out. The Eastern European nations queing up to join will almost certainly take out more than they will put in as they don't have the resources and economy to increase the strength of the Euro. If they did, they would be the same as a lot of people in the UK, not wanting to join.

Ultimately, I believe it is a question of when, not if we join the Euro. Hopefully, this will not be for some time, at least until we can see some benefit for the UK and it's population.

Unfortunately Mr. Blair would appear to have his own agenda, similar to the gulf war and seems hellbent on pursuing whatever he wants and riding roughshod over anybody who opposes him. What the current goverment should try to remember is that we are a democracy and they are put there by us, paid by us to represent the population of the UK. Unfortunately, our goverment seems to consist of Tony Blair, Tny Blair, Tony Blair oh, and Tony Blair.

Well that's my bit out :D and I haven't had a drink yet, might return to this thread about midnight tomorrow:D

[Alan]

A common currency is not a problem, or should not be a problem for people, after all it makes exchange between the nations much easier, no hassle over international money changing and the like.

This was how it was sold to us when the idea was first mooted but the real problem is that a common currency is only the surface manifestation.

The real works are behind it - a common financial system, the common currency is a trivial by-product. Europe is not a federal nation, like the U.S.A. Each state is the U.S.A. has its own government, laws and legislature with an additional, federal layer, of laws and administration. Federal issues usually cover items affecting the entire country rather than one particular state and federal tries not to interfere in matters that pertain only at state level.

But Europe is different, it's not federalist, it's centrist, like the current government in the U.K. This means above all else, it INTERFERES - in most aspects of out lives.

Does this smell like Big Brother from the book, 1984? Or Josef Stalin in the fifties?

Extremely centrist authority is always bad news for the individual. For that reason alone, I'm against not the Euro, but what lies beneath.

[abe]

Originally posted by PJ Matthews
Id agree class structure is less important but it is like it or not still there, only the margins are highly blured and theres more than a simple upper, middle and lower class - infact these names arn't that suitable anymore. Again we'll leave that for another discussion :).

Class structure is all in the mind, its a form of brainwashing. Anyway - ill leave it for another discussion.

[hillhopper]

Well, PJ, I'm an American and really don't deserve a say, but
in my most humble opinion, I think ur dead on...I would hate to see Britain give up her pound or her identity

To me, Britain is my mother country, just 'cause we cut the apron string dont break the heart ties...Britain birthed us and will always be dear to us, so maybe I do deserve a say. America is just Britain's prodigal child, after all.

I hope more Brit's feel as you do and voice their opinions to their MP

Good luck on this, I'm following with great interest

[PJ Matthews]

We will eventually join the Euro, and while I'd like to see this sooner rather than later, it must be done at the right time (not necessarily when the government says so ) to cause minimal impact on the UK economy.

HAHA - Thats a good one. The only way this country will join the Euro in the next 50 years is if the Primeminister takes us in without asking!

[master baits]

Theres more to joining the single economy than the media would have you beleive , to be in the ec eventually we must be in it or risk being frozen out in trade taxation from selling in the european community , we cant have our cake and eat it.

As for being a member of the euro "dollar" theres rules that keep it stringents controls in check , like fines for breaching certain levels of unemployment or inflation percentages.

Take the U.k , its pound isnt even theirs its roman and was the first euro through occupation of course.The uk does dodgy car boot maths too with its "adjusted , seasonally or otherwise" figures for unemployment or indeed export.Since our "tory mother's cabinet" dodgy maths has been a way of ticking over the economy at the expense of the future generations , ie living today and paying tomorrow.

Currently New labour is old tory , I grew up in the real world under the tory regime and was educated by some good teachers to real life , real economy and I dont remember it fondly at all , the closures of shipyards , mines and communites destroyed in scotland to be kept alive in england for a few extra years.

New labour is doing the same tricks , were dying at the expense of keeping the unemployment level down (pile of poo , its a hidden figure).Maggies brigade took stuff we already owned like the phones , electric and gas and sold it back to us to make a quick buck for the "middle classes" , I grew up middle class till the ships stoppped getting built and even when in high school this was starting I knew deep down taking something from the taxpayer to sell back to him is wrong , way wrong.

So should we join the euro , hell yes.

Why? To be equal with the rest of europe and on a level and fair playing ground , before we are banned from trade in europe.Dont be fooled into thinking average joe will take up the banner of save the quid , hes doesnt care if his beer is paid for in euros or quids , but he definately wont give up his cheap holidays abroad for his on his breath values.

[Sinizterguy]

I want the pound ... not stupid Euro.

I think its ridiculous to have a whole continent, with many countries at different stages of economic breakdown to have the same currency.

It doesnt allow any one country to break out from the slow economy as the rest of them drag it down.

And there is now way in hell that all of them will come up at the same time.

[Ciqala]

i used to feel very strongly about keeping the pound but now i just want to jump ship and go an live somewhere else as soon as i can and then tony blair can run the country into the ground for all i care.

[PhilD]

Look at the very few countries that have kept their native currency. Then notice how much more their money is worth than the damn euro. The euro is causing a lot of countries to loose a lot of money.

[Craig]

I dont want the UK to join the Euro, but it's more from the fact that I dislike the EU... it's such a massive con/waste of money. For all the money that the UK puts in, it gets far less back out... I dont begrudge paying tax too much when I can console myself it'll be used in the UK, for example going towards a new tank, or a book for a school or a new batton for a policeman... However when it is sent to the EU then sent on to some lazy Greek area where the money is poured in I feel kinda swizzled/diddled...

Hrmph.

[PJ Matthews]

lazy Greek

Spain is where alot of it goes, it gets a hell of alot more out of the EU than it puts in.

[Craig]

I stand corrected... spain's the problem then

[Ciqala]

Originally posted by PJ Matthews
Spain is where alot of it goes, it gets a hell of alot more out of the EU than it puts in.

to be fair they do have a high maintenance bill for tidying up after us when we are on holiday :D

[master baits]

spin cant be the problem , theres no spanish , its already part of the uk , cant find a spainard until november.

[Lord Avatar]

I generally go against the grain, and want a world with no borders where everyone is simply a "Citizen of Earth".

Of course, that's not coming anytime soon. :p

[Sinizterguy]

Originally posted by Lord Avatar
I generally go against the grain, and want a world with no borders where everyone is simply a "Citizen of Earth".

Of course, that's not coming anytime soon. :p


That is a capital idea, but devaluing our currency to support some other country is not.

[Forthy]

Kool, lets just abolish money altogether. :D

Then I could quit my job, AND have all the bits for my PC I could possibly need.

[Raelrigs]

sod the euro who needs it

give me the pound anyday

i live on the isle of wight where we are already useing the euro in most of the bussiness on the island, the busses, trains and taxis all take euro and pounds. my old man is a taxi driver and when the week is over he has to sit and work out exchange rates and that rubbish just so he can pay in to his boss. it makes our life a living hell when he is doing that.

leave the pound alone and keep us out of Europe as well.

i am brittish and proude of it, I am not a european (spelling?)


Rael

[PJ Matthews]

I am not a european (spelling?)

Sorry, but yes you are. I'm British as the next man but your on the European continent so you are a european just as much as you are human because your on the planet earth.

[Kynoch]

Just dismiss the continental crust under the english channel as though it isnt there. :D

Shame the channel used to be land joining us to the rest of the continent.

[Raelrigs]

Originally posted by PJ Matthews
Sorry, but yes you are. I'm British as the next man but your on the European continent so you are a european just as much as you are human because your on the planet earth.

i was born in england i have been living in england all my life i have been to wales once and to scotland once i have never been out of the uk i am nottingham born and bread so dont consider myself a european and i cant help that

it took me a long time to except being called brittish and not english but thats partly due the way i have been dragged up and the oppinions of my pearents, if i was a true european i would not need a passport to get in and out of the uk (not that i have one) and i dont care when the land mass shifted it was'nt when i was alive so it did not affect me.

so forgive me for wanting to stay British/english and not european/british

i think if the controll of this cu.ntry was turned over to Brussels i would be the first one to leave

i was born English and i will die Brittish no matter what tony Blair or any one else says

2 fingers to the euro and 2 fingers to europe as a whole

Please excuse my spelling i'm crap at this time of night :D

Rael