students

[Dead_One]

thats it
surley it is obvious why they annoy all sensible people :)

[Kynoch]

i dont annoy sensible ppl, i class myself as being sensible.

I dotn spend all my wages on alcohol and drugs, i budget myself instead. :D

Computers have to come first.

[danielctull]

I'm a young student (last year of A-Levels) so I hope not to fall into the pitfalls of "proper" student-hood :)

[wizard_uk]

I'm signing up for the OU, so I'm going to a part time student again.

[RaD]

Am not even at uni yet and am in muchos debt(5th year Ayr Academy). :rolleyes:

[FragAlot]

Originally posted by Kynoch
i dont annoy sensible ppl, i class myself as being sensible.

I dotn spend all my wages on alcohol and drugs, i budget myself instead. :D

Computers have to come first.

Same here

[scottie]

ok guys, I'm a student. I'm studying software development (hnd) with a view to hopefully being accepted at 'Glesca Cally' by june to do my final year.

OK we can write of 'dead one' as a classic windup merchant/topic initiator butreally I never realised that being a student annoyed people;)

life of larry, magic, kewl

students rule, 'tis so true

we have it so easy compared to the guys who actually 'work' for a living, yeah right!!!!

and in the end we have to pay all the fees back, but at least we'll be educated....

if we're not wasted on substance abuse/alchohol/women

oops I take the women bit back before a woman skelps me. (especially the wife)

I think non-students must be jealous, what do you think dead one????

:D :D :D :D

[Dead_One]

its just the way studens get everything handed to them, then demand more, or expect to get all the best jobs without earning them, or usually even being capable of doing them.
A few places i heave worked we had students, and the usual attitude was "i'm too good to change the tapes, i have a degree"
but when you allow them out of their boxes to fix a real problem, they haven't got a clue

Plus the fact that every student I know or have known has spent most of their time/money on beer or drugs, and the rest complaining that they don't get enough money from the govt.
Being able to do a degree is a privilidge, not a right, and they should respect that and not expect every thing to be given to them for nothing.

plus, those humanities subjects, why bother with them?
And Ologies

[Kev]

Hey hold on a minute..

i b a student!

and i aint annoying am i, am i well am i, you say im annoying, am i , eh..eh..eh

[Dead_One]

but kev, you are different
you were annoying b4 you became a student, so we all just got acclimatised to you

[Kev]

this is very very true

[Craig]

i've not spent all my money on beer and stuff, it's been put towards ammo and sweets, i have a weakness and it's for haribo, but that's not the point.

and what's wrong wtih humanities and ologies?

i'm studying sociology from october coming, wait a min, it is pointless, but it's an ology for me

[johnwibble]

When I was a student (20 or so years ago) I even hated myself :D

[screechXL]

Hang on gang!

Your taking a very very small number of students that do the the drugs and **** thing and cast it over the lot of us- same goes for the wanting more cash all the time.

I was the first of my family to go to uni and I consider myself very lucky to have done so. I chose to do engineering and it is very hard work-hopefully this will allow me to progress onto a great job eventually-when I shall pay back the student loan.We get GIVEN nothing from the government-as soon as we start earning we start paying back FACT.
Don't get me wrong its not the same as a 9-5 job and our beer is dead cheap but around exam time there aren't enough shuttles in the kustom warehouse that would make you want to changes places with us.

Those that did hard degrees should reap the benefits when they leave by way of good jobs that will benefit from their learning, those that did slacker degrees ('ologies and the like) have a great time and do not a lot of work but when they leave they find it hard to get a job and end up working harder than they would have if they did it at 18-kind of making up for the 3 years off!

Sorry guys I've gone on a bit-rant rant rant!

Bottom line-
You guys saying all students are slack and on drugs
is like the rest of the world saying all the people on this forum are sad no friend nerds with too much time on their hands!

And nether of those are true!

{If they both are I'm really in trouble ; ) }

Good night!

[Forthy]

Originally posted by screechXL
Your taking a very very small number of students that do the the drugs and **** thing and cast it over the lot of us- same goes for the wanting more cash all the time.

~~~~~~~~

Bottom line-
You guys saying all students are slack and on drugs
is like the rest of the world saying all the people on this forum are sad no friend nerds with too much time on their hands!


You're seriously suggesting people don't generalise and stereotype? That's far too radical a suggestion! ;)

[Da_Rebel]

There's nothing wrong with students.

If you people knew the half of what we half to go through, maybe you'd have a little more respect for us.

Travelling for an hour on packed trains every morning.
Getting up while u can still see the moon
three-and-a-half hour days

Terrible.

Although i must admit, in terms of students getting handed everything, I have been promised a top web-design job in London when i graduate after summer from the glory that is Paisley University, lol.

[Dead_One]

so you get the same as people who actually work for a living then?
And you get discounts on it all...
seems a hard life to me.

You should be grateful for the education you get, instead of wasting the time you are at uni getting drunk...

[Da_Rebel]

Excuse me, but I am not one of the masses of students who gets ****ed every night. Mainly cuz i have to save my £3000/year student loan to pay my £10 a day train fares up to Uni. And all joking aside, you try living with about a fiver a week to spare, or working two jobs whilst trying to make time for studying and somehow managing to fit in the minimalistest (if thats a word) of a life, such as a trip to the Odeon once a week. Students don't exactly have it made, you just think that because a lot of them don't work, they sit around pick their noses all day. And on the subject of just being gifted jobs, I may have been given a rare opportunity, but u say I don't deserve it???? I have spent the past three years, not to mention run up about £10,000 worth of debt training to gain the necessary skills to do this job.

[Dg]

Also being a student, I invite anyone who dislikes us to do the mathmatics:

tuition fees = ~£1100pa (theoretically paid for my parents, mine actually pay, which is unusual)

Student loan = ~£3000pa

Acomodation expenses = ~£2700pa

£3000 - £2700 = £300.

£300/3 terms = £100 per term

£100 per term/10 weeks per term = £10 per week


I suggest that you try surviving on £10 a week, before you winge about us.

Fortunatly, I do have some savings as I worked for a year, doing unix based C programing, which i enjoyed a lot more than being a student, as the work was interesting and taxing, and I learnt a lot more then.

[Forthy]

If you got a job, you wouldn't have to live on a tenner a week - stop whinging ;)

[Dead_One]

you are wining about having to pay for tuition to improve your life?
how is that fair?
When you grow up and go out into the real world, you have to pay your way, like the rest of us.
A couple of years ago i did a months course, total cost was 7k for tuition, plus £30 per day for travel, plus £1500 for materials.

so you say 10-15k for 3 years tuition is hard, try living in the real world.
you get first class tuition to prepare you for getting a job paying hopefully 40-50k per year, and you don't think thats worth the small investment?

And what really bugs me is the students who get all this for free, then can't be bothered studying so they fail there exams, or get a useless degree and end up being a street cleaner, and giving nothing back.

PAH!!

[screechXL]

This is getting a bit heated lads.

I think what all the students are trying to say is don't slag us off!

If you look how the forum started it was people slating students, all we've done is defend ourselves and brought to your attention the hard work we put in, giving you info that you were clearly missing!!!!

Its our choice and sacrifice to go to uni andtry and give ourselves the best chance at life. We're not whinging about it or trying to get sympathy-we're just trying to shut you up!
:D

Can we move on to people that don't even bother getting jobs at all, like the house of druggies that lives down the road from me!!

[Dg]

You forget I have lived in the real world... I know what its like, working 8 - 9.30, for a fortnight, chasing bugs arround a system, fueled by caffine, crisps and pizza.

I dont disagree with tuition fees in principal, I did a weeks course which cost something like £2300 for tuition, by comparison £1k a year seems very reasonable.

In fact, i wouldnt mind owing £15k, if i knew I would walk into a decent job. However unless I work in the city, I would be surprised if I make £23 on graduation, and £35 within 10 years.

[Dead_One]

and 23k is a lot better than a lot of people get with no degree, so i re state, a lot of students seem to spend all their time moaning about having to pay for their education, when in fact they are bettering their own life for a small charge.
seems fair to me, students are finally getting charged for the education they have, wheres the fault in that?

or do you think everyone should get 3 years free board and lodgings so they could waste more taxpayers money?


How do you think this would be accepted by these hard done by students.

Each student gets free tuition, free accom, free supplies and food vouchers, for the 3 years of their degree.
No money, just everything paid.
and if they dont pass the degree at the end of the 3rd year, they have to fund any more learning they do?

Cos they should know b4 the 3rd year if they can cope with the subject or not.
that way they have everything they need to study, but if they want to go get drunk, they have to go get a job like the rest of the planets population..
you think that would be acceptable?

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Forthy
If you got a job, you wouldn't have to live on a tenner a week - stop whinging ;)

Yeah OK, maybe I should get a job.

I leave the house at 7:20 each morning, drive to the train station (car was bought with some inheritance money before I started Uni so don't slag me for that it coss less than a grand), pay £8.50 to go to Uni. Get to uni, study until about 5:30, miss the 5:41 train so have to wait till 6:11. Get back to Ayr at 7:00. Get home 7:15. Have dinner till 7:30.

Now, can you please tell me where in that timetable, after adding in several hours I have to spend studying and find time to get a decent nights sleep, that I can find time for a job? Maybe I can work for about an hour and a half per night?

One reason there are such things as student loans is because ppl realise students often don't have time to work unless they are on a mickey mouse course.:mad:

[Dead_One]

so what do you need to get more money for, you dont have time to go out or anything, and food is fairly cheap if you shop around.

[The Pimp]

Originally posted by Dead_One
so what do you need to get more money for, you dont have time to go out or anything, and food is fairly cheap if you shop around.

I agree there D1!!!! A fortnights shopping without nappies for my family of 4 comes to under £60.

[Da_Rebel]

So I can buy lunch, for a start, and so I can at least go to the cinema at the weekend, rather than sitting alone in my empty shed and reading old phone books in the light of some fireflies which i keep in a jar made from mud and bits of broken glass i have collected. Also I need to give my mum dig money and to buy petrol to get to the train station and to buy train tickets and to get new clothes every once in a while and to pay my broadband connection. Not exactly like I'm partying it up every weekend spending £75 a night on drink

[Da_Rebel]

Oh and lets not forget the general upkeep of my car which depend on but has had 4 flat tyres, battery running flat 3 times and the backbox and tailpipe of my exhaust which had to be replaced when they fell off.

[Dead_One]

so a car, a night out, broadband, a pc etc are all things that the taxpayer should buy and maintain for you?

where do i get mine, cos if you are entitled as a student, as a taxpayer i must deserve a porche and a cinema of my own :-)

[Da_Rebel]

None of those were paid for by the taxpayer.

They were all from my meagre savings and inheritance money.

And whats your problem with loans anyway? They are just that. A loan.

I will be paying them all back with interest when i go into the "Real World" (as if I live in a fake world right now?)

[Forthy]

I meant quit uni and get a job - STOP WHINGING! :D

[Dg]

you guys, living in the "real world", started it.

did u hear any of us have a winge about how badly off we are, until you started complaining about us?

and D1, as an IT Consultant, if you dont drive a porsche already, you must be doing something wrong.

[Da_Rebel]

STOP ATTACKING STUDENTS!!!

Excuse me if I don't want a job as a road-sweeper, but being a student and studying for a degree appears to me to be the best and most likely way to get a decent job.

As was stated earlier in this thread, we are simply paying for education in order to get a decent job, we are not leeches who enjoy having to pay to spend as much time studying as u do working (if u work so hard, shouldn't u be at work right now?) and earning money.

We just want a good education.

Some of us have dreams and aspirations. Some of us don't want to clean toilets for the rest of our lives.

Now can we please just leave it at that and stop with this stupid students v non-students war!?!

[Forthy]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
Now can we please just leave it at that and stop with this stupid students v non-students war!?!

Where would the fun be in that?

[Da_Rebel]

*edited by The Pimp for non political correctness*

[The Pimp]

I don't drive a Porsche & I earn a fair bit... If I wnted to buy a Porsche I could do but why should I????????

BTW D_Rebel, I left school 14 years ago at the age of 14 with NO & I mean NO qualifications what so ever. I didn't go to college or uni, I made my own bed & slept in it. What am I doing now??? I own my own SUCCESFUL IT company.

Paper qualifications mean absolutely nothing anymore. I would rather employ someone who KNOWS what they ar doing than someone who has got a piece of paper or two that says they know. I know so many 'Paper Techs' that get confused as soon as you mention IRQ or DMA to them.

Do what you want to though, but stop complaining about fees & other stuff as it was YOU, and I repeat YOU, that decided to go to University or college, nobody forced you to.

[PJ Matthews]

I found the expense of Universty too much and have left to hopefully join the RAF or failing that the pigforce.

[Da_Rebel]

Excuse me but I have heard all the stories of ppl working their way up from the gutter with no more than their 50 metres swimming badge before. The fact is that I do not want to start in the gutter. I have applied for countless jobs in web design, etc but nobody wants to hear about it unless I have a degree. I have also been offered a very good, £30k+ a year job in London this summer provided I get a decent qualification (and paper degrees don't lie - if they say someone can do something they normally can). Do you think if I simply went in there and said "I did a web page gimme a job", I would not be immediately laughed at and thrown out?. Tell ya what. Why don't you and your abbreviations (and yes i do know what they both are) give me a top job earning that money.

[Dead_One]

What i was originally complaining about are vast ammount of students who seem to have nothing better to do than go on marches complaining about not getting a free ride from the state.
I agree there are a lot of students who do study, put the effort in etc, and good luck to them.
but there are a huge amount who just use uni as a way of avoiding working for another few years, in the hope that their degree in the history of kite flying will land them a high paying job where they have to do no work, and they still will complain about the little they do there.

Also, Pimp has a point about degrees, a lot of employers consider vocational quals and experience a lot higher than paper degrees.
I have seen, and employed a lot of techs who couldnt find a pc in a server farm, and they had it related degrees.
i would always hire someone with experience over someone with a bit of paper saying "I'm cleva, cos this says so"

So, for the students who are trying to contribute, dont expect hand outs from the state and want to learn, go for it.
for the rest of you, get used to state hands outs, and keep practising "would you like fries with that"
cos its all you will end up with

[Forthy]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
It would be fun because it would allow you to stop harassing us and go back to harassing old ladies or doing whatever you normally do.

Ok then my friend, war it is. FYI I have a job that does not involve cleaning toilets, frying burgers or harrassing old ladies. The other day as part of my job (that I am pitifully paid for) I genuinely saved a girls life. There is no particular job satisfaction that I get every single day that I go to work, but that particualr day made it all worth while. £20k/a I get paid, and it sucks for the job that I do. So you go off to uni, have a blast and get your high paid job and your porsche.

Oh, is there a shortage of porsches? Or are paper qualifications not a ticket to a fast car?

[Dead_One]

Why don't you and your abbreviations (and yes i do know what they both are) give me a top job earning that money.

Who was that directed at?
why would anyone offer you a job, with no knowledge of being able to do it?
doesnt make sense.

all a degree proves is ability to learn, which is fine in a job they are going to train you up in, not so good if you have to hit the ground running.

[Da_Rebel]

OK, so maybe you get a lot of satisfaction from saving a girl's life. Granted, I would probably get the same satisfaction. But, you complain you are poorly paid, but due to that satisfaction, you are not bothered about that. I would just like to say that, from my experience, the IT industry is not generally a place where saving ppls lives is a daily or even yearly occurrence, so if I can't get satisfaction from saving lives (and you say that is the only satisfaction you get since you are poorly paid) I am aiming to get satisfaction from not being poorly paid.

[Da_Rebel]

It was aimed at the pimp. And a degree not only proves the ability to learn, it proves you have learned the skills necessary for a job in your chosen field

[Forthy]

dude, the fact that you missed the entire point of my post is the problem you face in general.

My point is that, my job is fantastic, and I wouldn't change it for the world. However I firmly believe that I should be getting paid a lot more than a lot of university graduate's who, like yourself, would never put themselves in a position where you might just get the opportunity to make an immense difference to somebodies life, and maybe even enrich your own life thru doing so.

I also never said that I didn't have a degree, so you have no basis for saying that this is why I'm poorly paid.

*world set to rights once again*

[Dead_One]

a degree doesnt prove you can do a job, it proves that someone has stood in front of you and told you stuff and some of it sank in.
unless you imagine all jobs to be exactly the same as degrees?

most jobs are about applying learned knowledge to a specific situation, which is something that comes with experience.

as an example, a tech was working on a server, knew the book stuff, he went about things one way and got it fixed in a few hours
another with the same problem had done it b4, got it fixed in minutes
who was the customer happier with?

give you a clue, the first had a degree, the 2nd had a few years in the job...

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Forthy
I also never said that I didn't have a degree, so you have no basis for saying that this is why I'm poorly paid.



I never mentioned whether or not you had a degree.

Also, I don't pay your wages so don't blame me for being poorly paid. I would probably pay you a lot more if I did pay your wages. You also missed my point. I simply meant that, I feel I am better suited to a career in the IT industry (we can't all be lifeguards or doctors or whatever). Therefore, if I can't gain job satisfaction from regularly saving ppls lives, I would like to seek job satisfaction in another way and, no matter how much you like computers, staring at a screen all day does eventually get slightly dull, so I would be satisfied with earning a good wage.

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
a degree doesnt prove you can do a job, it proves that someone has stood in front of you and told you stuff and some of it sank in.

Have you sat an exam recently? Or better yet a practical assessment at uni or college? You do actually have to put a massive amount (normally all) of that sunken in stuff into practice. So it's not like reading a book on HTML and calling yourself a web designer.

Maybe you should go back to school and see/remind yourself what it is like.

[Da_Rebel]

A lot of you say you would hire someone with experience over someone with a degree? My question is: how exactly are we supposed to get the experience in the first place as nobody will give you a job if you don't have at least experience or a degree.

[Dead_One]

Doesnt mean you can walk into a job and do it all though, does it
theres a huge difference between learning to do something and actually doing it

[Da_Rebel]

ppl with experience maybe could do better than ppl with a degree, but I can't get a job because I have no experience and i cant get experience cuz nobody will give me a job unless i have experience or qualifications.

[Dead_One]

but you still think you should walk you way into a job paying £30-40k because some professor says you can do web design?
this is the point i'm making
3-4 years of work would equip you a lot more for the job than a piece of bog roll with a uni name on it ever could
and as for needing a degree to get an it job, dont talk rubbish
i got my first it job with no degree, pay was a lot higher than 30k, its all about selling yourself to get the interview and then the job
relying on a bit of paper to convince them doesnt help you
you need to know you can do whatever they ask

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
its all about selling yourself to get the interview and then the job

But if I have no degree and no experience, tell me exactly what I have to sell to an industry relying on ppl with at least some prior knowledge of what they are going into. It's not like you start a job and they say

"Here is the burger. Put it on the grill then put it in the bun. Now keep doing that all day." You are expected to know at least the basics of IT (and usually a lot more than that) if they are going to give you a second look.

Now stop arguing with me I'm trying to read the other forums

[Dead_One]

ever hear the phrase "start at the bottom" ?

[Da_Rebel]

Ever hear the phrase: Bite me?

I don't wanna start at the bottom, the pay sux. I would rather spend a couple of years studying and then start a lot further up than i could get in that time starting from the bottom

[Da_Rebel]

I have seen ppl leave college and start at the bottom. One lasted 3 wks in an IT job. The other lasted 5 1/2. Surprisingly (or not) they now both serve drinks to ppl.

[Dead_One]

even if it means you are not capable of doing the job?
even if it means having to sponge off the state to pay for your education?
even if it means not really learning the job, just a vauge approximation?

[Da_Rebel]

I do not sponge off the state. The loan money all gets paid back.
And if I was incapable of doing the job, would it really make a difference if I had a degree or not?

[Dead_One]

ok, so the loan money gets paid back, what about all the other discounts and tuition you get?
you really think that the cost of 3 years professional tuition is only a couple of grand?

be realistic.
for that sort of thing not subsidised by the state you would be paying many times that

[ling_thing]

well i'm going to try make a point here
bare with me - i'm probably talking sh**e
hehe

my course is computer & electronic systems btw so its engineering/computer science

i see mention to the fact that we should get a job so that we actually have money to live on

see if you look at my degree handbook
it says that for every hour we are in class in uni, we should be doing the equivalent in our own time

now i look back over my 2nd and 3rd year tiemtable
it seems like i was in classes (lectures/tutorials/practicals) for around 25 hours in the week so being in uni from 9-5ish most days
so that rules out working durign the week
if i was doing an extra hour for every hour in class then thats another 25 hours
so say i get up at 8, in uni at 9, home around 6. sit down check mail and ****e
make and eat dinner and watch a bit of tele - takes me to 7->8 probably
so then get a few hours uni-work done
so no time to work in the evening
that would leave the weekends but then if i worked weekends then i wouldn't have them free to do any more uni-work required or to actually have some sort of social life -or maybe go home see the parents and friends. plus i do like to try catch up on sleep at the weekend

ok i'm dont have that many classes now
but its my final year
got main project to do as well which takes up more hours of the day

mmm i'm bored of typing this reply now
wonder what comments ive missed while ive been doing it
probably makes no sense now


@Da_Rebel - do you not get travel expenses to cover some of that £10 a day you pay?
and your going to do web design and your web page looks like that? surely no one will pay you £30k to use front page :p

[Graeme*Kustom*]

surely it's an issue that employers only want qualifications and experience to get into a career? Isn't that be where the problem is?

Or Dead_one, if you feel that students aren't learning real world experience when they get their degrees or whatever.. that's hardly their fault? If anyone is to blame for lack of practical skills in a course it will be the education authorities who produce the criteria for passing each module.

Let's face it - life is learning right from the word go.. when you're born you know very little and as time goes on you learn new skills, remember new things ... perhaps courses should reflect a given job more?

[Da_Rebel]

It's not exactly just using frontpage, there's a lot more involved than just that.

and Dead One, what discounts? A pound off a cinema ticket? Wooohooooo!!!

And haven't you realised that I am not the only one paying thousands for tuition? These places get millions in fees from all the students they take in.

[Forthy]

I had a huge reply typed out, then the site went down b4 I submitted it :mad:

Hey-ho, the gist was, I (and all the others who have not attended uni and are surviving adequately) will never get why you put yourselves thru 3/4 years of living on £10 a week, and whinging non-stop about it. If you don't like it, quit uni and get a job.

If, like Ling, you can get thru uni without whinging or getting extra work then you don't have a problem :D

Carry on.

[Dead_One]

I have no problem with people getting the facilities they need to study, just dont see why my taxes should subsidise students getting drunk/ stoned/ buying cars/ pcs etc.

how about this for an idea, any students have a problem with this.


you finish school.
if you want to do a levels, your parents continue to get family allowance, to cover your food
if you want any more money, get a job for saturday etc..

you get 3 years free uni, accom, food, travel, books, tuition etc, in the form of vouchers or whatever.
iIf you want more money for non essentials, you either get a job, or defer a year to build up some cash.

If you mess up, you have to pay tuition and accom for the year(s) you have to re take.
If you quit, you pay back what you have had so far, once you get a job.

Can't see any problems in that for genuine students, can any of you?

[Da_Rebel]

Cheers Graeme.

And 4thy, I had a huge msg typed out earlier too, lol. Anyway, the reason ppl put themselves through uni is so that they can learn necessary skills to start them off at least, and jobs in areas like pharmaceutical research, which my friend is currently studying isn't exactly an area you can walk straight into off the street. How about getting ppl off the dole and giving them jobs as doctors? Same with computers, it doesn't just teach you how to work frontpage or photoshop etc, you learn a whole bunch of related things. One of my next semesters classes is about design, management and marketing, which you can't really learn from 1 book on your own.

Anyway, I'm fed up with this argument.

Why can't you ppl just stop harassing students?

[Graeme*Kustom*]

Why can't you ppl just stop harassing students?

It's the rant forum.. :)

[Forthy]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
Why can't you ppl just stop harassing students?

This has kept me awake all day, stopping would mean having to walk to the kitchen and put the kettle on. Nowhere near as much fun :D

[Da_Rebel]

Dead_One. Sounds like a reasonable idea but for one thing.

Student loans are not handouts. They get paid back in the end, so your tax money that subsidises us eventually goes back into other things tax money should be spent on.

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Forthy
This has kept me awake all day, stopping would mean having to walk to the kitchen and put the kettle on. Nowhere near as much fun :D

And you complain students are lazy and do nothing?

[Dead_One]

And haven't you realised that I am not the only one paying thousands for tuition? These places get millions in fees from all the students they take in.
you want to try and work out how much it would cost to run a uni for a year, and see if they make a profit?


people will stop hassling students when students stop expecting to be given a free ride with no responsibility for it.
If students stoped moaning about not getting everything for nothing, and not getting given enough money, and got down to studying then people would respect them more.

You seem to forget that gong to uni is a privilige, not an automatic right, and you should maybe start treating it as such.

Then maybe that way you could pay back some of the subsidy that is keeping you at uni in the first place

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
And you complain students are lazy and do nothing?

Feed that fire... Keep it burning... :D;)

[Da_Rebel]

Going to McDonalds. Anyone want anything? (and no I'm not going to ask for a job so no jokes about that).

[Forthy]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
And you complain students are lazy and do nothing?

I've earned the right to sit around doing nothing today :p

[Kynoch]

posting that is just asking for it, this isnt a diary of your doings........

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Dead_One

you get 3 years free uni, accom, food, travel, books, tuition etc, in the form of vouchers or whatever.
iIf you want more money for non essentials, you either get a job, or defer a year to build up some cash.

If you mess up, you have to pay tuition and accom for the year(s) you have to re take.
If you quit, you pay back what you have had so far, once you get a job.


ok we dont pay tuition fees up here in scotland - thank f**k
but i still have to pay all my rent and bills
then theres the food
my travellign as well - its very far but it adds up
got to buy books and then theres the stationary as well
and extra notes for class along with consumable costs when i have to print ones out
then you have to have a social live (all work and no play makes ....)
and then theres the other essentials like clothes

all i have towards that is any money i can earn during the holidays and my student loan (which i have to pay back with interest once i start employment - so your not paying for it unlike the people before us who got grants)

so you dont want the government to give money for uni's but paying for primary and secondary schools is ok?
whats the difference apart from uni education not being compulsary? its still education


if i mess up a year and need to repeat then i would have to pay tuition fees and not get any loan to help
thats why most folk i know that have had to repeat a year, take a year to earn enough money out before coming back if they do actually come back

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
gong to uni is a privilige, not an automatic right

I realise that, but I just wish everyone would stop slagging students and making them feel like they're lazy sods who rob ppl and sit around drinking all day. Some of us actually go there to better ourselves and get a proper education to prepare us for the "real world" as some ppl like to call it

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
I realise that, but I just wish everyone would stop slagging students and making them feel like they're lazy sods who rob ppl and sit around drinking all day. Some of us actually go there to better ourselves and get a proper education to prepare us for the "real world" as some ppl like to call it

And at the end of the day go to McDonalds :D

[Da_Rebel]

all i can say to that is... lol.

McDonalds is a rare treat for us students though.

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
all i can say to that is... lol.

McDonalds is a rare treat for us students though.

Treat? lmao! :rolleyes:

[Kynoch]

i know ppl that live from Maccy D's all day when they are out of campus.

So "us" shouldnt be used so freely.

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
It's not exactly just using frontpage, there's a lot more involved than just that.


i made that comment cause have you seen yuor web site recently?

anyone that uses a ring round a mouse like that deserves to be shot

it was ok when it was a novality
like when i first doodle with web design 6 years ago
but even then i got ****ed off with it after a couple of page views

if i was going for a £30k web desing job then i would have a better web site that that on show


o and i see you have wee rotating gifs as well

[Alan]

I can see one pattern in this rant. Some of the students seem to have the opinion that once they get their degree they hope to walk into a "top job" and earn fairly big bucks - from day 1?

First, that ain't going to happen, second, why the hell would you expect it to? The guys with the degrees in your company who have been there say three years (a) wouldn't be happy and (b) have your theoretical knowledge and three years experience.

NO-ONE gets big money at their first job unless it's a triple first from Oxbridge or you are an up and coming expert in your field. 99% of graduates are not leading exponents in their field just as most scientists are bottle washers and button pushers.

Next, effort. I was married, working full time, studying for Chartered Surveyor exams (minimum 5 year course plus professional tests) when I started a general Computer Science degree at the Open University. The O.U. courses were 120 points a year and there were seven surveying exams sat over one week (with two sets of college exams as well). I did it and I'm a reasonably lazy sod!

My son is at University doing Mathematics and Computer Science and he has the longest holidays I have EVER heard of. He is very often home and the longest day for lectures he has, is 3 hours!

He got a Saturday job at a warehouse distribution unit and, with his "loan", is rolling in it!

Your individual circumstances may well be very different and hard, but Dead_One lives up to his avatar label (I think about 95%) and I suspect his rant is aimed at students in general.

So don't bother defending yourself, you're not the target. The general body of your peers is :D

[Kynoch]

several ppl i know have got there degree's etc, and currently they are on the dole because they cant get jobs in the areas they are qualified for.

There is no gaurantee you will have a job if you just jump into uni.

[The Pimp]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
all i can say to that is... lol.

McDonalds is a rare treat for us students though.

Yeah right then why are the McDonalds, Burger Kings & other takeaways all full of studenets all the time in Cambridge?????

Stop clutching at straws trying to make out that it is all hardship (if you are worried now wait till you have a mortgage & kids) and come up with some valid comments to why students shouldn;t have to pay for an education once they reach a certain age. You chose to go to college/University YOU suffer the costs. You knew what the risks when you signed up for the education, so don't go looking for sympathy now you find it is not like you thought it might be.

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Alan
I can see one pattern in this rant. Some of the students seem to have the opinion that once they get their degree they hope to walk into a "top job" and earn fairly big bucks - from day 1?


i dont think that way

i'm still not sure what i'm going to do once i finish uni

but really should be trying to sort that out now
most of the jobs that ive been given info for or researched info about offer starting salary of around £20k (18-24k depening on skills is common)

i could go the computing way or theres opions for engineering as well
so going from chip design to programming

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by ling_thing
i made that comment cause have you seen yuor web site recently?


Yes i have seen it. I built it. 4 years ago. I just update it occasionally cuz with all the time i spend studying now i don't have time to build a new one.

But next week while i'm on holiday the whole site will be taken down and redone

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Kynoch

There is no gaurantee you will have a job if you just jump into uni.

I know that but there is even less guarantee of a job with no experience or degree. The only way to get experience is to get a job and most jobs want experience, which you only get from having a job so what exactly do u do to break this cycle?

[Alan]

Get some practical work experience working for Dead_One;)

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by The Pimp
Yeah right then why are the McDonalds, Burger Kings & other takeaways all full of studenets all the time in Cambridge?????

Stop clutching at straws trying to make out that it is all hardship (if you are worried now wait till you have a mortgage & kids) and come up with some valid comments to why students shouldn;t have to pay for an education once they reach a certain age. You chose to go to college/University YOU suffer the costs. You knew what the risks when you signed up for the education, so don't go looking for sympathy now you find it is not like you thought it might be.

How the h311 should i know i don't live in cambridge.

Also, there is no way i could afford uni if i wasn't able to get a loan, etc. However, the government has realised that the many students like me who couldn't afford to pay their own way through uni at the time (but will pay for it later) would end up cleaning toilets or something when they could have become doctors and chemists, etc in jobs that need filled. Not everyone can be a binman.

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by The Pimp
Yeah right then why are the McDonalds, Burger Kings & other takeaways all full of studenets all the time in Cambridge?????


up here its full of NED's

thats glasgow for you
hehe

[Forthy]

I've just realised. Whilst you're out getting your high paid job, who is cleaning the toilets and emptying the bins? lol

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Forthy
I've just realised. Whilst you're out getting your high paid job, who is cleaning the toilets and emptying the bins? lol

Generally, people who left school at 16 and didn't bother with uni or college, lol.

Although I'm not saying everyone who left at 16 does that so don't start flaming me about it.

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Forthy
I've just realised. Whilst you're out getting your high paid job, who is cleaning the toilets and emptying the bins? lol

They will soon be very high paid jobs due to no-one going into them... Like plumbing has become. Either that or the students will invent robots to do the jobs the students should be doing! :D

[Da_Rebel]

On a different note, does anyone know if that is a new speed camera up at the traffic lights at Tesco/McD's? Or is it for something else? I know there have been several accidents there with ppl jumping the lights - saw a Nova 3 months ago almost ripped in half.

[Forthy]

If it's a small grey box ('bout the size of a cereal packet) and there's no lines on the floor, it's a red-light camera not a speed camera. :D

[The Pimp]

Maybe if the firefighters got more money then this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2707719.stm)wouldn't happen to the students accomodation.

[Da_Rebel]

One thing I don't get about this firefighter caper (must've missed it) is why the army don't just use the normal fire engines. It's not like they belong to they firefighters themselves, is it?

[Alan]

ling_thing, you do pay student tuition fees in Scotland. It's just that they are deferred until you graduate. It get's added to your loan!

Not so much plumbers but Corgi registered Gas fitters are in high demand. I'm in the Construction Industry and in London, they are getting £90 per hour !!

If you seriously want to make good money in the future and always have a job that's in demand - plumbers/Registered Gas Fitters and related trades is THE way to go.

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Alan
If you seriously want to make good money in the future and always ahve a job that's in demand - plumbers/Registered Gas Fitters and related trades is THE way to go.

D'oh! Should've followed my dad into the plumbing industry! But my passion lies with science, and there it shall remain :)

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Alan
ling_thing, you do pay student tuition fees in Scotland. It's just that they are deferred until you graduate. It get's added to your loan!

you sure?

wish they would tell me that

cause i got my letter from student loans company tellign me how much i owe them in total and theres no mention of the tuition fees on it

or do they just rename it and call it interest

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by ling_thing
you sure?

wish they would tell me that

cause i got my letter from student loans company tellign me how much i owe them in total and theres no mention of the tuition fees on it


I think you can apply for the student loans company to pay your fees for you, depending on your circumstances. You don't have to pay them back cuz the government subsidises them i think

Otherwise, you pay them yourself, but they do exist.

[ling_thing]

well as far as myself and my flat mate are aware

the SAAS have paid our student fees and we dont pay them back

if so then they've kept it quiet

[Da_Rebel]

Yeah on the form u can apply for fees paid as well as loan. Probably hoping ppl well off enough not to need a loan won't realise they pay the fees for u.

[ling_thing]

true

i jsut know that when i apply for loan, it also asks if you want to try apply for your fees to be paid

and as far as i'm aware i dont have to pay them back

£12K is enough debt to be in for the mo thank you very much

[Da_Rebel]

exactly. Don't worry you'll pay it back in no time when you get a job as a toilet-cleaner or road-sweeper, lol. Some ppl seem to think thats all degrees are good for.

[Dead_One]

my last posting was as ugestion.
if you were offered that instead of a loan, grant whatever, would you take it, or can you find anything in it that wouldn't be suitable for your lifestyle?

I seriously think, and it is backed up here by the students comments, that everyone should defer uni for 12-24 months, get a job, earn some cash to fund you through uni and see what a real job is like.
Firstly this lets you know if you are cut out for that field of work
2nd it gives you a bit of basic grounding in the subject
3rd it earns some money you can save towards your study

And I'm sure the govt would be quite happy for lots of supposedly intelligent people to be looking for work at low pay between 18-20. Maybe they could set up a scheme whereby a portion of your salary is put into an account towards student living costs, and you get it tax free....


just an opinion, but as a non student through choice, i can't see any harm in getting 3 years education free, as per my suggestion, and only having to pay for non essentials.

And before any one starts the "you're just bitter because you don't have a degree", as i said earlier i didn't go to uni through choice, I was accepted at oxford but felt that i would have struggled to afford to do a full degree, and had a job offer starting at the bottom. A few years after that I re applied after building up some cash and being out of work at the time, but by the time my acceptance came through I had been offered a job that was too good to be turned down.

[Craig]

ah well, d1, if it's any use i'm sure there's a course at ayr college for you, right now!

[Dead_One]

doing anything remotley similar to a real job?
i doubt it crag.

besides, it would take a while to fill in all my sponge from the state forms....

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
doing anything remotley similar to a real job?
i doubt it crag.



Maybe you could take a spelling course, lol

[Dead_One]

Didnt realise this was a spelling contest, thought it was a debate about students not deserving all they get.
I suppose if you are studying as hard as you say you are, you wouldn't have time to pick up on little mistakes like that, or the time to write a pointless post regarding it....

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
get a job, earn some cash to fund you through uni and see what a real job is like.
Firstly this lets you know if you are cut out for that field of work
2nd it gives you a bit of basic grounding in the subject
3rd it earns some money you can save towards your study


Sounds like a reasonable suggestion, but ppl who do take a year out to work don't always try the field they are going in for, it is mostly bar work or simple office work and things like that. For someone wanting to be a doctor, for example can't exactly get a part time job as one for a year first.

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by Dead_One
Didnt realise this was a spelling contest

Calm down it was just a joke. I'm not really in the fighting mood any more.

In the words of Saddam Hussein: "Relax guy".

[Dead_One]

haven't you got the point of this post yet?

as for not being able to get a job doing what you want for a year out, with a lot of jobs you can, and with most you can always volunteer to help out.
ok, so maybe not as an astronaut or a brain surgeon, but in something on the fringe.
and the main point is to be able to hold down a job and grow up for a bit.

[Da_Rebel]

OK OK I see your point, but it's a bit late for me to take a year out don't you think? Every student has the choice to take a year out or not and my decision was not, so let's just leave it at that.

What happened to this thread being closed anyway? Why was it re-opened?

[Dead_One]

cos its so much fun when people can't see its a wind up and bite all the time :-)

[Da_Rebel]

Yeah yeah yeah very good.

But I am sick of ppl always baggin on students. It's not just here, it's like they're jealous of us or somethin' so I get fed up and tend to take it more seriously.

If you wanna serious debate, get your a55 over to the Cars/Bikes forum, lol.

[Dead_One]

i have, but no one is biting there

[Da_Rebel]

Got any good modded car pix?

If not you could try starting an argument that Skoda will win the WRC, lol. I'm sure a wind-up master like you could find something.

[Dead_One]

It doesn't mean that i don't agree with what i have said about students though....

[Da_Rebel]

I know. Now run along and play somewhere else. Haven't you realised that there now seem to be a severe lack of interest in this over-debated thread.

Just give up. Nobody's listening anymore

[Dead_One]

lol
you think?

I would consider a post with 100+ replies to be of interest.
However, you have made any points you can formulate, so feel free to stop contributing.

We will try not to miss you.

[Da_Rebel]

Ok so maybe it has 100+ posts, thanx mostly to the 2 of us though, but now it looks like ppl are getting bored. But feel free to keep talking to yourself.

[The Pimp]

I'm still listening :):)

Good debate, even though the students seem to be on the losing side at the moment with DeadOne having the final say.

[ling_thing]

lol

its just more fun to sit back and watch you and dead oen fight it out


why dont you meet up for a game of pool :D
muhahahaha

[danielctull]

Originally posted by The Pimp
Good debate, even though the students seem to be on the losing side at the moment with DeadOne having the final say.

I don't mind the students losing (and i'm a student), it's been a fine debate turned big wind up joke! :D

[Da_Rebel]

The students are severely outnumbered b'cuz most of them are studying (it is currently exam season) i am only here cuz my exams are finished. I am going to start my new site tonite, so should be done by the end of the hols.

And we are now just going over the same ground. It seems ultimately pointless and not even fun anymore. I won't be replying anymore - got better things to do.

[Da_Rebel]

was fun at the time but enough's enough, some ppl just need to realise that

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
I won't be replying anymore - got better things to do.

That lasted long :D:rolleyes:

[Da_Rebel]

lol, just making a point. Now I'm off to look at more interesting stuff. Lounge has just been painted - maybe I'll go watch it dry.

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
lol, just making a point. Now I'm off to look at more interesting stuff. Lounge has just been painted - maybe I'll go watch it dry.

Don't forget to post a picture when it's finished. Or maybe you could post some during photos as well ;)

[The Pimp]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
l Lounge has just been painted - maybe I'll go watch it dry.

Cor, you can afford to buy paint??????? I thought students were poor :):):)

[danielctull]

Originally posted by The Pimp
Cor, you can afford to buy paint??????? I thought students were poor :):):)

They do tester bottles for free y'know ;)

Although my dad has told me of him as a kid, his parents laying tester carpets on the floor to make some kind of free multicoloured carpet :D

[Da_Rebel]

Had to sell my body to your mum to pay for it.

Actually I live with my parents and they paid for it.

As requested, here is a pic.

[Dg]

damnit missed posts....

do you always paint with all the furniture in place?

[danielctull]

Thanks for the picture Da_rebel, it is my favourite hobby next to figuring out the equation of how the snow falls on the tv...

[Da_Rebel]

happy to oblige. My parent's bedroom ceiling is getting re-painted at the weekend. You are welcome to come and watch it live.

[danielctull]

it actually looks like strippy wallpaper you have there... or streaks in the paint :rolleyes:

[Da_Rebel]

It is wallpaper but it's the kind of wallpaper designed so you can paint it when the colour fades. We can't all afford brand new wallpaper every few years ya know, lol.

[Dead_One]

so are you still not replying any more?

cos some of us would like to get on with the real debate.

just as a comment, does your 3 years of uni finish in january?
or is it just another of the stupidly long holidays you lot get?

[Da_Rebel]

It's called study leave and feel free to get back to the real debate - i won't post on that any more but ppl decided decorated my house was more interesting, guess its their decision.

[Dead_One]

maybe it was just more interesting than you re hashing the same pro student ranting?

proves a point about the thread not being past its sell by date though..


Also, how come you need study leave if your exams are finished, surely you should be back, nose to the grindstone etc?

[ling_thing]

see its these folk at paisley

its not a real uni really
holiday then exams then a holiday again then lectures

where as i didn't have much of a holiday cause of studying
once new year was by then had to think about these exams

so studying up till exams
then sitting exams
then back into uni to start lectures again a few days later

[Da_Rebel]

I was the same, although studying since after boxing day. But I am not the only one sitting exams. There are still more exams going on. Plus Semester 2 is about to start so there is a lot of administrative work to be done b4 then, plus marking the exam papers.

And Paisley is a much better Uni than any of the crappy Glasgow ones.

[Dead_One]

thats what you would think all students did, the way they go on.
But it seems most of them have weeks and weeks each year with nothing to do but go to the pub and whine about not having any money.

as for the polys that call themselves unis now, don't know why people bother..

[ling_thing]

so are you acutally at paisly uni? or you jsut at that thing in ayr that calls itself paisley campus or whatever it is?

mmm marking off exam papers

mine propably wont get marked till like may or soemthing silly like that

dont get any results back this year

[Da_Rebel]

BUGG3R 0FF

Tell ya what. I ADMIT IT!!!

I WENT TO UNI BECAUSE I REALISED THAT IT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER THAN GOING STRAIGHT OUT AFTER SCHOOL AND LOOKING FOR A JOB. I'M PROUD TO LEECH OFF THE GOVERNMENT. I LIKE P1551NG OFF PPL LIKE U WHO HATE HAVE TO SUBSIDISE MY EXTREME DRINKING AND PARTYING HABITS. IT'S GREAT GETTING AN ALMOST FREE RIDE!!! BUT TELL ME THIS:

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT, PUNK???????

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by ling_thing
so are you acutally at paisly uni? or you jsut at that thing in ayr that calls itself paisley campus or whatever it is?


Not Ayr Campus.

Didn't you read about me having to pay £8.50 a day to travel to Paisley? U think i did that for fun?

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
Not Ayr Campus.

Didn't you read about me having to pay £8.50 a day to travel to Paisley? U think i did that for fun?


ahh yes - remember it now

how come it costs so much?
seems quite a lot seeing as it only costs me like £4.50 to get to glasgow on the train from ayr

[The Pimp]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
happy to oblige. My parent's bedroom ceiling is getting re-painted at the weekend. You are welcome to come and watch it live.

can you put the webcam there instead??????? BTW either you are a very good still life model or there is something wrong with the webcam transmission as you weren't moving at all last night!!!!

[Da_Rebel]

I have to go b4 8. How come u only pay £4.50 to Glagow? What time do you go? On the train?

[Da_Rebel]

Lol, I am practicing for being a model in a painting class. Actually the webcam was offline last nite. Currently use it very rarely as I have had more important things to do. In fact I haven't had it online in ages. Don't even have the goatee any more.

And sorry, but the webcam won't reach that far, my mansion is 3.5 miles long and unfortunately i only have 2.84 miles of cable. Plus the golf cart I use to travel from one room to another has a flat tyre so I don't go there often. Actually, dinnere is at 6:00. Better start making my way to the kitchen.

[ling_thing]

ahh s**t jsut remembered

young persons rail card gets you like a third off the train fair

although there is soem term and condition with it regarding travellign before 10am
theres a minimum fare before that tiem or soemthing


athlough hasn't mattered in the past when ive used it before 10
although thats not much as i rarely travel on the train i nthe morning - maybe it jsut depends o nthe person who sells you the ticket

theres other rail cards that give you cheaper travel as well that are valid before 10
plus if you are travellign to uni then surely you can claim some travel expenses back



i jsut realised
when i said 4.50 - thats return price

[Da_Rebel]

Yeah I've got a travel expenses form to send away. Asked about railcard and there is a minimum fee in the morning so I'd only save about 50p a week and if I miss one day of uni, that makes it more expensive cuz in theory i've already paid for that day's ticket.

U r at uni and you rarley travel b4 10? What kind of course is that your are on?

[shifty.ricky]

Originally posted by Craig
i've not spent all my money on beer and stuff, it's been put towards ammo and sweets, i have a weakness and it's for haribo, but that's not the point.


Funny thats where my money goes as well. Whats costs more sweets or the ammo......well Match EPS is expensive and dont even get me started on Texex.

As for classing students as people who get stuff handed to them i say nuts to that!

I work my ass off when I am at home in a freezer warehouse for tesco so i can afford to go to uni (cardiff). I have never asked for anything to be given to me.

I also am a member of the terratorial army (not really a job) but in brings in some cash (that mostly goes to kustom :) )

People who are bitter about being students say this becuase they were never clever enough to go to university.

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
Yeah I've got a travel expenses form to send away. Asked about railcard and there is a minimum fee in the morning so I'd only save about 50p a week and if I miss one day of uni, that makes it more expensive cuz in theory i've already paid for that day's ticket.

U r at uni and you rarley travel b4 10? What kind of course is that your are on?

i live in glasgow
so only have to get low level for like 1 stop i t he morning

[The Pimp]

Shifty, I would take the time to read the rest of the posts before posting.

FYI if I wanted to go to university I could have done if I had wanted to. No if's or but's.

I have nothing against students in general just the ones who whinge about the tuition fees & other financial aspects of it. They knew what they were letting themselves in for when they signed up to go to Uni. They are the ones who got the student loans and other financial help, they are the ones who could get a part-time job to help pay for things.

To put it simply, if you cannot afford University, then don't go. Simple as that. Stop whinging on about how hard it is like people care, as they don't. You put yourself in the position, don't expect anyone else to get you out of it.

[Dead_One]

and people who leap into the discussion without reading the rest of it are not really worth replying to....

however, if you take the time to read the rest of this thread, then come back, your last statement may change a little.

as fgor working, great, its what the rest of the world does to pay its way, and as previously suggested, is the way that students should fund their study.

[danielctull]

I know I'm going for the experience of learning at Uni. I can't really afford it, but I want to go. I'll probally end up getting a student loan. But going to work then going to Uni is often out of the question as a lot of the time, by the time money has been earnt you a) want to keep earning that money and live that "rich" lifestyle, as opposed to a student and poorer lifestyle and b) don't have the time for a student lifestyle due to "proper" relationships.

This is what I have heard from other people, as their experiences. It is nice that we have the option to buy now, pay later.

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by The Pimp
I have nothing against students in general just the ones who whinge about the tuition fees & other financial aspects of it. They knew what they were letting themselves in for when they signed up to go to Uni. They are the ones who got the student loans and other financial help, they are the ones who could get a part-time job to help pay for things.

actually when i decided that i would go to uni and started looking at what i would do, (if i am right in remembering) students didnt have to pay tuition fees and got grants not loans

so really i didnt know what i was letting myself in for

[Dead_One]

but surely that will weed out the students who aren't commited to learning, and then the degree might begin to mean something again, if not everyone has one?

If you had to work for a place at uni, like in the good old days, then students might realise that it is something to take seriously, and not just a way to waste another few years b4 they grow up.

Seems nowadays, you need to pass a couple of exams and get into a decent uni, which obviously holds back the brighter students.
When i was in 6th form, you needed 2, pref 3 a s at a level to get into a good uni.

think it was something like 24 points for a decent uni.
(a 10 pts, b 8 pts, c 6 pts, d 4 pts, e 2 pts)

ofbridge was 36+ for good courses.

now you see all these kids saying"i have a d and an e, if i can get another e thats me into cambridge reading thermonuclear dynamics and its relationship to the horse"
or some stupid thing

[danielctull]

Originally posted by Dead_One
now you see all these kids saying"i have a d and an e, if i can get another e thats me into cambridge reading thermonuclear dynamics and its relationship to the horse"
or some stupid thing

lmao :D Well I'mm looking at a BCC to get into a physics course in astrophysics at exeter. Which is quite low for exeter really.

There are now degrees in everything nowdays, wine tasting etc... It's more about what you experiences you get whilst there rather than the paper you come out with.

[ling_thing]

would say now that theres too many courses on offer in far too many university's and as a result uni's lower their requirements in order to fill the classes

but you tend to find that a lot of the folk that didn't really work at school but go onto uni will not really make it past 2nd year

mines a 4 year course
and although we havnt lost that many folk over the past 3and half years
i think we started with like 30 people on the course and we now have like 20 i think
think only a couple of them made it into 3rd year before failing and having to take suspension for a year in order to resit exams or bu**er off

[Da_Rebel]

Originally posted by The Pimp
To put it simply, if you cannot afford University, then don't go. Simple as that. Stop whinging on about how hard it is

For once, I sort-of-agree with you. I hate the ppl who whinge about the cost (not the ppl who defend themselves from ppl attacking them about getting an easy ride). However, thanx to loans and everything, I don't think anybody has the excuse they can't afford it. The loans are there because ppl shouldn't be prevented from learning just because of their financial background.

[Forthy]

Originally posted by Da_Rebel
For once, I sort-of-agree with you.

Well done Pimp, you broke him :D :D :D :p

[Da_Rebel]

lol. Not broken, just looking over to the dark side.

I just said I don't like the students who moan either. I have absolutely nothing against all the others and still heartily endorse this product called further education. Just said, like The Pimp, I can't be bothered with whingers

[Alan]

ling_thing, more bad news for you. As I told you earlier your student fees in Scotland are merely deferred and are paid back along with your student loan.

The student loan is interest free? ... well... not really.

Although interest is not charged on the debt between incurring it and paying it back, it has a nice little switch to it. You have to pay back the value of your loan as it's equivalent value in the future.

For example, total student loan of £10,000 by 2004. You start to pay it back in 2007, then you are paying back an amount in 2007 which is the equivalent value of £10,000, three years earlier. So if the rate of inflation between 2004 and 2007 is 5% each year you will have a debt of £11,576 !! Boom Boom!

This means that any smart guy who stalls paying it back for 20 years (as many think they can) will have a debt roughly the size of a substantial mortgage.

Dead_One, there's one thing wrong with your rant when you refer to the old days. In the old days (i.e. 70's and 80's) students paid NO tuition fees and also got grants, NOT loans.

To that extent, students are a lot worse off than they used to be.

Otherwise Ayr man speak with straight tongue!

If I was a student now, I would be whining about the tuition fees because it only represents an excuse for the Chancellor to effectively reduce the cost of universites to the Exchequer. Tuition Fees haven't improved University education (or Lecturers' salaries) they simply allowed Broon to waste the money somewhere else.

[Meddler]

I agree with various things which have been said....if u r not prepared to face some sort of financial hardship u shouldn't go to uni.U need to be committed to ur course and do the work.Don't moan about it....no one wants to hear.There r too many degree courses available now.....not worth as much as they used to be. I think it should be available for everyone who wants it...hence the loans....and u should work hard and play hard to get the most out of it!!:D

[Dead_One]

the reference to old days was that in the old days you had to be a bit more than standard to get a uni place, hence the free education.
nowadaya, anyone can get a degree in the sociology of the earthworm, or some similar subject

[ling_thing]

Originally posted by Alan
ling_thing, more bad news for you. As I told you earlier your student fees in Scotland are merely deferred and are paid back along with your student loan.

The student loan is interest free? ... well... not really.


well as i said ive got nothing telling me that
and neither my flat mate or I know anything about that

and this is what the SAAS says (student awards agency for scotland)
"Scottish domiciled and EU students, studying at an institution in Scotland, are entitled to free tuition. We will pay the tuition fees in full, up to a maximum of £1,100"

so if its free tuition then it doesnt make sense that i pay it back

i didnt say my loan was interest free
i just said that if i was paying my tuition fees back then it must have been disguised as interest as thats the only other thing on the total

[Da_Rebel]

Tuition fees are not repayable if you get them paid by SAAS. And there is no way they are disguised as interest. Although my loan is already earning interest b4 i even finished my course, the amount I pay is pathetic. It's about 2% pa.