a new career?

[razer121]

so to be very short i kinda noticed you guys here a like mega tech heads :) which is good....anyway im trying to get into IT personaly id like networking but...atm id take anything as working at tk-maxx is not that nice! lol, anyhow ive read alot of information online about how to get into it, google is so your friend :) but anyway from the guys here, who DO work in IT, how did you do it? what would you suggest??

[latency]

Depends what area you're looking for... but here's my career history so far as my two-pence.

I'm 22, I work for a very experienced IT Consultant as his senior technician / right-hand man. He's the former sys admin of GMTV London, and now a solo act installing and maintaining IT set ups for schools and small businesses.

I went to college and did an AVCE in ICT, but didn't really learn a great deal there that I didn't already know, just got a buzz-word qualification to my name.

I started working in a local computer shop during college after asking for a job there. They wanted someone full time, but I nailed the interview and got the job. I met said current boss, and learnt the most valuable lesson for a starting tech- working on other people's computers is a very different kettle of fish to working on your own: You cannot risk other people's data, you cannot half-**** it, and the general public will find the most obscure faults that will flummox what should be a very simple fix.

Anyway, the computer shop closed during a redevelopment of the town centre, and my boss and I parted ways for a bit- I worked as support technician for a tiny business making electronic door-access systems. I got this job through an IT temping agency, they didn't really find much for me, so while it's worth getting your CV to job agencies to cover all bases, don't expect a mountain of interviews to be waiting the next morning.
Here I learnt the sucky lesson of having to work with what equipment is available, however bad it is, and also having a full time tech for a business with 9 computers is overkill. Doing nothing all day isn't as great as it sounds- I was bored, uninspired, and got back problems from slouching.

I bailed on this company, and unexpectedly got an interview for IT technician in a private school, the job was advertised in a local paper, there are a fair few of these positions about if you look in the areas where private schools lurk. I nailed the interview again, and was tech for a 90 machine mac network, under the supervision of the sys admin, who was the IT teacher, but didn't have the time or knowledge to fix the computers. He was a manager, not a technician.
This was a kick ass job that I miss, Private schools are great work experience, you come across a lot of obscure problems, so you learn very fast, and the schools are rich enough so you get to work with good equipment. It was also good because there wasn't any mission-critical stuff, so you you hit a nasty issue on Friday afternoon, it could wait until Monday.
Unfortunately the pay wasn't great, and the job wasn't going to advance anywhere, so when my old 'now current' boss called me and offered me consultancy work, I agreed to join forces again.

Was then contracting to him, driving around Hampshire fixing problems at various small businesses, very varied work and good fun. Money was good, but hours were low, so it leveled out.
It was higher end as well, the problems had to be fixed there and then, leaving with the problem half-fixed or delayed was worst case scenario- so adaptability was the key.

Did that for two years, and then my boss managed to open another local computer shop in Shaftesbury, Dorset. I moved out my dad's place in hants, and into the flat above the shop, where I now reside, managing the shop.
Back onto the gen public and their wacky problems. But now I'm picking up business skills by managing the shop's stock and basic accounts, we also have a part-timer who works under my direction, so I'm building managerial skills as well.
Main concern is computer repairs, where speed and quality is all that matters- we get enough repairs for a full timer to work on, and since I have the shop to worry about as well, I need to be able to fix a machine fast enough to get it out the door before the pile builds up, but well enough so it doesn't come back in again.
So far I'm pretty apt at it, we get a lot of praise for our work.

Eventually, my boss wants to get someone else to near my skill level, so he can get me back out the shop and back onto the businesses.

[Tom]

so to be very short i kinda noticed you guys here a like mega tech heads :) which is good....anyway im trying to get into IT personaly id like networking but...atm id take anything as working at tk-maxx is not that nice! lol, anyhow ive read alot of information online about how to get into it, google is so your friend :) but anyway from the guys here, who DO work in IT, how did you do it? what would you suggest??
As far as I'm concerned, anyone can get a qualification by learning the material they're given. That does not, however, mean that they'll be any good at their job. Granted, it doesn't mean they won't.. But if you look at doing anything, make sure you pick some route that involves work experience, and/or a work placement.

You've also got to have a passion for this stuff, to do well in it I find. Yes it makes you a bit of a geek, but that's what hiding in bedrooms is for; so no-one knows you're a geek. :p

How old are you? What qualifications do you have already? Basically, where are you starting from?

I was a huge computer geek from day 1.. No real qualifications at school to speak of (they didn't offer any) but I went on to do a BTEC National Diploma in Computing for IT Practitioners (Software Dev. variant) which taught me quite a bit. Computing is far more useful (for the technical side of things) than an 'ICT' course.

Aside from teaching me a lot of the basics, I also realised that I didn't fancy hardcore programming. So I chose to focus on hardware, and since the only decent careers in hardware comes from Networking.. I'm about to start my final year of Network Engineering. :D

If you like networking, you'll probably find that Cisco qualifications are a good place to start. You MUST remember that Cisco's way of doing things is almost always different to any other manufacturer's, however. I know plenty of Cisco nerds that, given a router/switch from any other manufacturer (try Juniper if you want to see 'em hiss ;)) will have them at a loss for a good while. So, just keep that in mind. They're still a good route, as you're taught the fundamentals of networking as well. :)

I took the course I'm on, at Staffordshire, not because the Uni's good (although both my college lecturer's recommended it, though I have no idea why) but because it was the only Networking course I could find that didn't teach a lot of programming (i.e. something like 'Network Computing') and included training to the CCNP level.. Which definitely makes the course a cut above the rest, even if my degree fails to make my C.V. shine. Perhaps it's changed since 2004, though. The other (better) Uni's might have caught up!

However, going back to my first point, experience has been the greatest lesson of all. There's no point in knowing the text books inside-out, if you can't apply them when the pressure's on. Hence my placement year has taught me far more than I've learnt in any establishment, during my educational life.

So.. Maybe that'll help. :)

[razer121]

wow thanks for the response guys! ok...so i personaly think i have loads of ex, ok im not some great speller...math techy, but give me a pc and well, ive never really not been able to fix it, only once....but that was not my fault :) im intrested more in building computers, im a perfectionist so getting things right the first time is not a problem for me :) funny enough i have gone to alot of lans so setting up networks in martins (mate who holds the lan) is okish, i dont know everything about networking but i do know how to tackle them when they play up so i do have ex, i have alos set my own personaly netowork up....although taking a course in networking my fill in those little gaps i have :) any other input would be great and btw! im 20 years old :)

[latency]

mmm... if I were you, I'd see if you can pick up work at a local computer shop, and see if anything takes your fancy in the local papers. Those are often great foot-ins to the industry.

Avoid places like PC world- their techs are hacks, you'll only pick up bad habits there.

If you're feeling brave, consider doing some solo private work, I make a little money on the side by fixing home computers at £20 an hour in areas out of range of the shop I run (ala, Hampshire, not Dorset).
I picked up customers through word of mouth from my main job, and by printing some cheap leaflets and putting them through doors.
Quite often you'll be fixing malware and such like, so it's fairly low end work, but it takes good people skills to walk into a stranger's house and fix their computer on site. You need to make sure you're up to it before having a go, because you don't have the option to take the computer away and fix it at home, and re-formatting is always a disaster with gen public computers.
Again, good experience doing that though...

[liadbacklad]

latency once again you are providing a fantastic source of information(grammar?), you are very much an invaluable asset to these forums.

Tom's answer was verty good also!

I got my IT experiance from working in a bio-pharmaceutical job, i mkae medcines primarily, but my boss used to be the global IT manager, and he wanted to create a more robust secure network. I helped and have learned a great deal, from the basics of using MS-DOS to manually validate software installs to high end stuff like fooling software into thinking it only has one acees to the network (like it should) when in reality it has several (hugely complicated but oddly fun)

You;d be surprised where you get IT experiance. Hell working in a waffle factory being a little computer savvy will get you a long way with the boss, who often want someone else to run it and deal with the problems so they can leave at aroun 3 in the afternoon :P

I think samll businesses are best, like what latency said, sometimes having a good boss who believes in you and lets you do the work and helps you when you need it is best!

[Fireblade]

Hey Latency... keep your back to the wall mate :eek:













:p

[latency]

Hey, not wanting to blow my own horn or anything- just saying how I got in the industry ;)

Unless you're referring to my scandalous cash in hand work?

[bluspikez]

You;d be surprised where you get IT experiance. Hell working in a waffle factory being a little computer savvy will get you a long way with the boss, who often want someone else to run it and deal with the problems so they can leave at aroun 3 in the afternoon

Couldn't have been said better. In high school I was pretty much the goto guy cuz the IT lady had no idea what was going on. Now I just fix friends' computers and other acquaintances problems and of course take care of our small home network (2 desktops, sometimes 3, a 360, a Wii, and laptops every now and again). We have a small wireless network at work for the boaters (I work at a marina during the summer) and I usually end up keeping that running and helping the boaters not only get on the 'net but also end up fixing the compies. I hope to get into IT after school, and considering the job placement from my uni (Michigan Tech...job placement is like 90%!!!) it shouldn't be a problem. :D

[razer121]

damn bluspikez..ur lucky i was a total jerk at school...instead of being good in IT i just hacked the teachers computer....got kicked out in the end, wish i didnt but anyway, i do genrale work for mates and such..thats ok, im ok with new people lol i work in retail...i have to be able to approch someone...once again not a problem, i think i have potential but its getting someone to belive in you first i guess, i only know of a few places around my area 1, being maplins.....hm ive tryed 3 times now, they employ people who have no idea about pcs, yet some one like me who btw answered a customer in there instead of the staff, didnt get the job, weird huh? anyway and anouther place called top computers...which isnt doing very well, so yea thats real hard :( ive been thinking of going to the job center and asking them about IT jobs, what do you guys think?

[wizard_uk]

I'm going to say go the certification route.

Start off with CompTIA's A+ Certification:

http://certification.comptia.org/a/default.aspx

Whilst doing it get some experience under your belt.

[bluspikez]

damn bluspikez..ur lucky i was a total jerk at school

Lucky? lol I wouldn't call that luck mate. You could have been in the same position at school, but as you said you decided to hack things :rolleyes:. I don't mean to get down on you, and I wish you the best of luck, but I just found that humorous and wanted to point it out. :p

Back on topic, I would say (just like the others have) that you should try to get some kind of certification/training to back up what you already know. I haven't formally had a job in computers yet, just odd jobs (haven't really looked for/wanted one yet tbh), but hopefully next summer the schooling will pay off and will net me a nice job/intership/co-op in the field. It's one thing to say that you know something, but once you have something to back it up with, people will trust that you really do know your stuff even more.

[razer121]

ah...lol well, if i knew what i knew now, i certainly wouldnt of just hacked things lol, im going to collage tomoz to find out what course there are ad such, im still going to go for networkign i think, i enjoy just setting them up second to most from building a computer so i cant see myself getting bord of it :o im also going to chat with a friend of mine about his job as he is in networking....i could learn some usefull tips :) thanks again for the input guys, now i just need that "push" to get me going lol

[PJ Matthews]

Theres lots of ways into I.T, although already working in I.T when I joined the RAF I went through the communications\I.T trades and now am part of a small team looking after 700-750 workstations, 150 laptops, various stand alones a large number of network and non network printers 25 servers plus the network infrastructure. We also handle issue and support of all our I.T equipment that goes out of area.

So I've gained alot of experience and been thrown into some situations by myself you wouldn't usually experience anywhere else (like trying to bringing a network like that on-line in the early hours of the morning).

I've gained various qualifications including an AA in Communications Electronic Engineering etc, A+s various McAfee and Symnatec courses and am working on an MCSE now. Good way into I.T and prettyy much ensured a job when you leave. PJ

[DAWG]

Right, so my way into IT was a slightly different affair. Prepare yourself for a wall of text. Apologies for the life story!

I wasted my time in School, and passed only 3 of my GCSEs with higher grades. I knew that I wanted to have a career in IT, so I went to college and did a BTEC First in IT. Then went on to do another two years doing a BTEC National in IT. No idea what the equivalent qualification is these days.

From there, I could have gone to University, but decided against it because for me, it just didn't feel right for me. Plus, I wanted to earn myself some phat cash!

So I went in to work, as junior IT support for a small financial advisor. Because it was my first "real" job, I was paid pretty poorly. However, in my time there, I learnt a LOT (mostly because there was so much to learn that college didn't teach me ...). Because in that job, I had to liaise with the local computer shop, it was natural that I would want to work for them, and I did.

I was employed to sell computers over the counter. Words cannot describe how much I hate sales (I once told somebody that these DVD things will never take off, lol), so my position in the company was quickly shifted to working in the workshop, fixing computers, etc. Because I was hands-on hardware, I got into networking too, as a necessity. Because of the environment that I was working in, I couldn't help but learn about how things worked. IT at the time was moving on very rapidly so there was quite a lot to take in, but because it was a case of "learn it or leave", my desire to stay in work meant that I had to learn it. Fun times.

From there, I went working for a large networking firm (who also owned the local football team, and since got bought out by British Telecom. Name no names!), and while there I self-financed my Cisco CCNA qualification. Also during that time, I was self-teaching web development in my spare time. I worked there for 3 years, and by then I new enough HTML and PHP to get me a job as a web developer. I made websites for two years, when I was made redundant, which forced me to move to Manchester, where I am now.

I was originally employed to work as a web application developer, but now my job has naturally progressed into a Linux Server Admin / Database Admin.

In all this time, I've never once taken a course (apart from CCNA, but that was required). Everything that I know now, and that I currently use day-to-day, I have taught myself from books and the internet. Because of my desire to understand not just how things work, but why they work, I have put my teachings into practice, which is why my career since goofing around in school has worked out pretty well.

The I.T. industry is a very fickle place. You'll tend to find that you never really work to your job's specification - you're always expected to know more and work outside of your initial requirement.

For me, pay rises only come when moving jobs. Because in technical IT, you aren't seen as "making money", pay rises are hard to justify. Which, is pretty stupid, but that's how my world works.

I currently earn about ~£32k. Taking into account that I've self-taught myself, this isn't bad. I'm not bragging here (it's not worth it!), but just showing that you don't need to be academic to be good in IT. You just need to have a brain, and be willing to learn and adapt. Remember, your job in IT will not stay the same forever, so expect to be upset along the way.

I turned 30 at the end of July, and I'm just about to start a new course in September, which is a Foundation in Games Programming - once again, completely different to what I'm doing now. When I spoke to the course tutor, I asked him if I was too old to get into this, and he said "if your fingers and your brain works, you'll have no problems at all". Take that as great advice :D

[PJ Matthews]

On a note to my story about the RAF, most of our I.Ts being civilianised so if anyone wants to employ me in a couple years let me know :).

[Tom]

In all this time, I've never once taken a course (apart from CCNA, but that was required). Everything that I know now, and that I currently use day-to-day, I have taught myself from books and the internet. Because of my desire to understand not just how things work, but why they work, I have put my teachings into practice, which is why my career since goofing around in school has worked out pretty well.

*snip*

I turned 30 at the end of July, and I'm just about to start a new course in September, which is a Foundation in Games Programming - once again, completely different to what I'm doing now. When I spoke to the course tutor, I asked him if I was too old to get into this, and he said "if your fingers and your brain works, you'll have no problems at all". Take that as great advice :D
Interestingly enough, when I started my BND in Computing (at 16) there was a chap starting with us at the age of 28.. He'd been forced back to college because he "didn't have any qualifications."

He'd taken a very similar route as yourself: left education with an HNC, IIRC, and went off to find work based upon his diligence and experience. He even worked on the team that designed/implemented Screwfix's product database, and also landed jobs working with Sun super-computers.. Some really awesome stuff, but apparently the experience alone wasn't enough to gain him any useful employment. He was routinely turned-down in favour of others based upon a lack of qualifications. So, he went back to do the college course as an entrance to University and subsequently went on to obtain a 1st in Computer Science at Exeter, which is quite an achievement!

The moral of my story however, is that I'd be cautious in being so cavalier with advocating building a career on experience alone.. I do agree that it's far more important, but you never know when it'll come back to bite you on the bum: some employers just want to have at least some certification to complement your experience. It's probable that my friend was just unlucky, and you yourself have a CCNA, as well an impending Games Programming course, so I'm not trying to insinuate that you'll soon be out of work or anything.. I just don't personally think it's safe to rule out formal education.

To back-up what you've said about the industry though; it's so true about learning. I've not stopped yet, and I can't see a day when I shall... In fact, I think I'd actually be quite saddened to not find myself challenged in my working role! If nothing else, you'll have to re-do that CCNA every three years to keep it current. :)

[brumster]

Tom and I have similar views on this (must be the brummy 'air'... ;) ). Experience alone is not always perfect, because the problem with relying on peoples experiences is how do you guarantee they've had the right ones?

It's all fine and good mucking about on PCs at 10, ditching college at 16 and fixing people's computers at your local PC store of a weekend, then 10 years later waxing lyrical about your PC experience and seeking a job with HP - but unless you've had some structured learning, with some guidance on what is the right way of doing things, chances are you're just going to pick up and propagate bad habits in any employ you take.

Likewise, I am even more convinced a life spent in education will not get you significantly further than getting out there and doing the work (and learning, and pushing yourself, along the way - learning doesn't stop at university - far from it).

There's a degree of luck in it - I'm certainly where I am today thanks to being the right person in the right place at the right time - but that's life, to be honest!

But no-one - in any industry, let alone IT - got anywhere without putting some effort in.

(Apart from politicians, of course ;) )

[DAWG]

Of course, I was by no means debunking the idea of education at all ;) Perhaps I'm a little biased, as I left school some 15 years ago now, and been working in IT for about 12 years in some form. I guess there is no way of telling someone what's best, because everyone has to find that out for themselves. At my age, education doesn't even come into the equation mind, as I can prove my skills elsewhere :D

[razer121]

wow....so looks like im in for a long trip to get into IT....this input is great by the way guys! and readin others storys is kinda intresting....keep em coming :)

[brumster]

It all started with a Philips G7000 at the tender age of 8. It went downhill from there ;)

[Tom]

It all started with a Philips G7000 at the tender age of 8. It went downhill from there ;)
I was glued to one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PC1640) from the age of about 4, with the extra 128KB of RAM and it even had a 3.5" FDD! :eek:

My age is restricting, but there was another Amstrad before it.. Buggered if I can remember which one, though.. :o

[brumster]

CPC464?

(Old fart retires into a corner now...)

[Tom]

CPC464?

(Old fart retires into a corner now...)
I often feel jealous that I was far too young to be programming on those older systems. My boss is always telling me stories of writing compilers for Spectrums and shouting at the people that designed the thing.. It's like; they were there at the beginning and I've jumped-in a bit too late to really understand it all.

But then I remember that I'll have a higher chance of seeing FTL travel, and stop worrying. :p