View Full Version : Sky / MCE Integration with FloppyDTV S2
Graeme*Kustom*
29-01-2008, 17:03
Our latest article shows how to ditch the ugly Sky Digibox and install your viewing card into a Dragon CAM module and use Windows Media Centre to schedule recordings and playback channels.
Check it out here http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/skymceintegration.html
BloomerzUK
29-01-2008, 17:35
Brilliant mate. Hard work put into that, but it was worth it.
Naughty naughty, Adult Channels :D
although it's good as a technical excerise.... the Sky HD box (or Sky+) do the job much easier and better IMO.
i went thru the phase of using PCs to run TV and, while it worked, it was just too much hassle keeping the things running smoothly all the time.
Smoothy123
29-01-2008, 20:18
could you do this on mac with this: http://elgato.com/elgato/int/mainmenu/products/tuner/310/product1.en.html it says it supports a CAM module.
thanks
could you do this on mac with this: http://elgato.com/elgato/int/mainmenu/products/tuner/310/product1.en.html it says it supports a CAM module.
thanks
on the link you poasted, they state
To receive PayTV on EyeTV 310, all you need is a compatible combination of Common Access Module (CAM) and a PayTV subscription SmartCard. Please check with your PayTV provider to ensure that it supports third-party standard CI receivers. A few providers, such as BSkyB in the UK, do not.
Smoothy123
29-01-2008, 20:41
i read that, but i though that this sounded like a hack with all the firmware flashing, so i thought it might work... just hoping.... :(
Graeme*Kustom*
29-01-2008, 21:19
although it's good as a technical excerise.... the Sky HD box (or Sky+) do the job much easier and better IMO.
i went thru the phase of using PCs to run TV and, while it worked, it was just too much hassle keeping the things running smoothly all the time.
I think it's very much a case of Sky+ has it's place, but this technique allows greater flexibility for streaming to media extenders and means you can ditch the sky box itself - seems a shame to spend a couple of hundred pounds on a nice looking HTPC box and then sit on a grey bit of plastic on top of it?
Naturally I realise this isn't for everyone, but it's a bit more than a technical exercise - it's going to be useful for a lot of users. I wouldn't have put time into it just for a laugh, there's few enough hours free in my day as it is ;)
Graeme*Kustom*
29-01-2008, 21:21
i read that, but i though that this sounded like a hack with all the firmware flashing, so i thought it might work... just hoping.... :(
The firmware flashing - once carried out on a PC - should be OS independant, so it might work but I'm afraid I couldn't say for sure.
Officially, Sky would not support it, since installing the Predator firmware would not really come under the remit of being 'officially supported'.
[GPO]Solitaire
29-01-2008, 21:26
Hm....
SKY+ box Mod....
Rip the Guts out of an old Sky+ box stick in a half decent Mobo....Same functionality as the Box plus you can play DVD's on it :)
Graeme*Kustom*
29-01-2008, 21:52
Solitaire;431189']Hm....
SKY+ box Mod....
Rip the Guts out of an old Sky+ box stick in a half decent Mobo....Same functionality as the Box plus you can play DVD's on it :)
I have a slight feeling you might have slightly missed my point above.
But, definitely, +1 point for the humour of it all the same. :)
[GPO]Solitaire
29-01-2008, 22:15
Lol :D
I probably did miss the point. :D
Bear in mind you need to stick the viewing card back in a Sky box periodically as they send refresh signals to the viewing card - keep alive if you prefer.
Cheers,
Stephen
Bear in mind you need to stick the viewing card back in a Sky box periodically as they send refresh signals to the viewing card - keep alive if you prefer.
Cheers,
Stephen
this is true, i don't think this was mentioned in the article. if you miss the "stay alive" signal your card is dead.
Graeme*Kustom*
29-01-2008, 23:26
I've read mixed reports on this - some people say that you need to keep a connection to the phone line, but the box being used here (prior to being swapped to the FloppyDTV card) was not connected to a phone point for the best part of a year, and didn't have any issue.
Is there something else that the box does that I've missed on ? So far the system shown in the article has been running without the Sky box for about 3 weeks, although I appreciate that's only short term at the moment...
[GPO]Solitaire
29-01-2008, 23:39
I've had mine unplugged from the phone line for a while, it does not affect it's use unless you buy pay-to-view stuff then you need the phone line..
I've read mixed reports on this - some people say that you need to keep a connection to the phone line, but the box being used here (prior to being swapped to the FloppyDTV card) was not connected to a phone point for the best part of a year, and didn't have any issue.
phone lines are only required in a "multi-room" environment. it's what sky use to make sure the box is still in the same house, rather than at your mates house etc.
if you have multi-room and you disconnect the phone line, you will eventually get a letter from sky telling you to plug it back in or else they will start charging you the full subscription, rather than the reduced multi-room fee.
Is there something else that the box does that I've missed on ? So far the system shown in the article has been running without the Sky box for about 3 weeks, although I appreciate that's only short term at the moment...
you won't know for sure until you've hit the 5 week mark. sky will attempt to "re-hit" the card during that period to make sure it's still active, as the card isn't in a sky STB it won't be able to receive the "re-hit" and the card will stop working.
as you're only 3 weeks in it probably hasn't attempted a "re-hit" yet.
cards can only receive the "re-hit" whilst in an approved Sky STB. this has been the major stalling point for using sky on a PC without a STB for many years (which is why everyone tends to just use the s-video input method).
the "re-hit" process is done "over the air".
Graeme*Kustom*
30-01-2008, 11:03
hmm, ok. I'll append a note on the article just now advising of this potential issue, and will update it when personal experience allows.
As far as I know the Predator firmware just enables channel decryption rather than emulating other features of the Sky box, but will see what happens.
Great guide :D
now hows about a mythtv version ;)
THis is what I wanted to do with my HTPC but instead I have given up and have sky+ now.
Will have another look at this option again now as you guys have done this
Hi folks :)
Brilliant that you stock this now Graeme as I was going to purchase it ;)
So yeah ... I did a fair bit of research check out this software regarding the HD usage for MCE/VMCE ;)
http://sceneo.buhl.de/Sceneo___Produkt_Seite_VistaTV.BuhlData
Going to read through the guide properly now :D
Graeme*Kustom*
30-01-2008, 23:17
Translation tool on standby :)
translation complete. ish. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://web.buhl.de/Sceneo___Produkt_Seite_VistaTV.BuhlData&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://sceneo.buhl.de/Sceneo___Produkt_Seite_VistaTV.BuhlData%26hl%3Den% 26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3DEzh)
So based on the crap translation that I already had a look at and had Debbie (native German) have a look at (useless, due to technical words).
This software allows the integration of HD streams into VistaMCE (not sure about MCE 2005 *spits*).
It does simply load a plugin which isn't as elegant as Microsofts offering but it is the only option I could find to allow this all to work in MCE.
Another option available is of course DVBViewer that is actually compatible with MCE remotes, I am not sure about Mediaportal myself but if someone would be kind enough to tell me how good or otherwise it is I would be very grateful.
I did try GB-PVR before but it was ****.
You still need to keep a sky box, as mentioned to maintain NDS card, I lost my HD channels over a period of time (can't remember exactly), so had to ring sky to reactivate.
I have been told (don't know for sure), that you can request from sky to have the phone line connection requirement removed for a fee, NDS card is then maintained by satelite.
Also this from sky, multi room secondary boxes can be HD at same price as any other sky box.
MediaPortal is very good, has improved significantly over the last couple of months.
For best HD quality (virtually stutter free) run with TV3 server version.
I've also found Floppy DTV S2 gives best picture quality with Main Concept h264 codec.
TTS2-3200 with Cyberlink.
Graeme, good to see somebody taking the time and effort to provide such a good and detailed guide, much appreciated.
You can also install Floppy DTV S2 in front floppy bay, providing much better access to CI/CAM slot, using floppyDTV extentsion kit, which includes h264 codec.
Will try to put some pics in the gallery.
Nigel
I have left my Sky+ box with no phone line for over 6 months now with no problem at all.
When I had 2 regular boxes they would send a letter if one was dc'ed for a week.
You still need to keep a sky box, as mentioned to maintain NDS card, I lost my HD channels over a period of time (can't remember exactly), so had to ring sky to reactivate.
I have been told (don't know for sure), that you can request from sky to have the phone line connection requirement removed for a fee, NDS card is then maintained by satelite.
the phoneline is NOT used to keep the card activated.
the phoneline is only a requirement if you have multitoom as this is how sky can tell if the box is still at your address or not (ie you've given to a mate etc). there is no way to get around this. sky will not let you disconnect the phoneline if you have multiroom. if you do disconnect it they will charge you the full price for 2 boxes (as opposed to a smaller charge for the second box)
card activations/reactivations are done "over the air" only.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup, What he said.
the phoneline is NOT used to keep the card activated.
the phoneline is only a requirement if you have multitoom as this is how sky can tell if the box is still at your address or not (ie you've given to a mate etc). there is no way to get around this. sky will not let you disconnect the phoneline if you have multiroom. if you do disconnect it they will charge you the full price for 2 boxes (as opposed to a smaller charge for the second box)
card activations/reactivations are done "over the air" only.
Hence, you must keep your box, as this does not happen in the PC.
yes i know, we've said that previously.
i was commenting on that you suggested that NDS was done over phoneline, which it isn't. it is always done "over the air'
DarkKnight
08-02-2008, 23:36
Hi folks,
I've had problems following this set up and could really do with some advice.
I've downloaded MCE2DVBS, however it seems to be looking for .Net version 1.1.
Am I right in thinking that .net version 3.0 is pre-installed on Vista ?
According to this translated German forum (http://tinyurl.com/2wphwv), it seems to be a hardcoded check from XP days.
So, how did you Vista folks get around this ?
Did you downgrade to v1.1 or perform some other magic to get it installed ?
I could really do with this tool to get my channels sorted.
Any help would be much appreicated.
Thanks
.NET v1.1 is not an old version of v3
v1.1, v2 and v3 are all separate packages, and you can sometimes need all 3 installed depending on what apps you are running.
whether or not there is a v1.1 package for vista though is another story.
DarkKnight
08-02-2008, 23:56
Awwwww... Right.
So these .Net packages can co-exist rather than superceding one-another ?
A quick Google that .net service pack 1 is Vista compatible so I expect it should all work. I'll give it a go this weekend.
Fireblade
09-02-2008, 08:53
Awwwww... Right.
So these .Net packages can co-exist rather than superceding one-another?
Yes.
You've now got v1.1 I take it?
Get v2.0 here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en), and v3.5 (the latest version) here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=333325FD-AE52-4E35-B531-508D977D32A6&displaylang=en).
But you should also Google (or search the Microsoft website from the links above) for .Net Framework Service Packs (SP's) as well!
There's v1.1 SP1, v2.0 SP1, and v3.0 SP1 ;)
DarkKnight
10-02-2008, 23:30
Hi,
Ok folks. I've got past the .net framework problem. v1.1 and service pack 1 are fully installed and the installer now seems to function for mce2dvbs.
However, I've stumbled into a new problem.
It would appear that mce2dvbs is not designed for Vista. THe installer seems to error out towards the end with an error#2869.
It seems to be a theme popping up in mce.de and AVForums.
So, it begs the question : Graeme@Kustom how did you get MCE2DVBS to work on Vista ?
looking at the screenshots in the article, it's clearly been done on XP.
DarkKnight
11-02-2008, 10:29
Oh...
Balls.
Graeme*Kustom*
11-02-2008, 14:26
Sorry, I've not tried this on Vista - it still stands that MCE2005 has far more support for playing around with it over Vista. In terms of HTPC use, Vista doesn't really add a lot so we've still been recommending MCE2005 where possible.
Just a couple of questions I have not yet seen answered to:
1. How would you go about simulating the RF2 output to another room including remote control? I currently use this to my bedroom.
2. To use the Sky+ feature of recording 2 channels at once, do i simply buy two Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner cards and join them together? I assume you only need 1 viewing card for decryption?
3. In the picture of the Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner card there is a cable that goes from the RF connection at the back to a port on the gray box. There also appears to be another port right next to that one, what is this for? Can I simple connect another RF input form the 2nd LNB?
4. Could I connect 4 LNBs from 1 dish to the system so I can record 4 channels from 1 viewing card?
5. I assume I would be able to receive the free to air HD channels - what happens if I want to subscribe to Sky HD (extra £10 /month) when they know I do not have a Sky HD box? Will they ask me for the serial number of my HD box if I simply say I have one?
6. Any more light on this 5 week card activation theory?
7. Any chance of testing with Vista as this is what I, and I bet a lot of people, have installed on my system. I chose Vista because of its looks, not the best reason for choice, I accept, but it’s all about the WOW factor is it not?
Gosh, more questions than I originally thought. I hope someone can answer them though as I am very intrigued to find out the answers before I buy.
DarkKnight
12-02-2008, 10:59
It would appear that mce2dvbs is not designed for Vista. THe installer seems to error out towards the end with an error#2869.
It seems to be a theme popping up in mce.de and AVForums.
So, it begs the question : Graeme@Kustom how did you get MCE2DVBS to work on Vista ?
Guys - An update :: MCE2DVBS for Vista is available here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6401209&postcount=1772). I've yet to try it, but I'll let you know how it goes.
ps. You need to be a logged in subscriber to download from the link
Graeme*Kustom*
12-02-2008, 11:18
1. How would you go about simulating the RF2 output to another room including remote control? I currently use this to my bedroom.
You need to stick with a Sky box to retain this feature.
2. To use the Sky+ feature of recording 2 channels at once, do i simply buy two Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner cards and join them together? I assume you only need 1 viewing card for decryption?
I believe the FloppyDTV S2 does support two cards being installed but I'm 99% certain you'll need two viewing cards. And for reasons highlighted earlier in this thread, a multi-room subscription would not be suitable since that would need a box connected to the phone line - so it would need to be two standalone viewing card subscriptions.
3. In the picture of the Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner card there is a cable that goes from the RF connection at the back to a port on the gray box. There also appears to be another port right next to that one, what is this for? Can I simple connect another RF input form the 2nd LNB?
It's not there on the cards now - possibly the illustration was an earlier version, but there's no reference to it in any of the manual etc. The position is blanked off and there's no connector on the cards that are sold.
4. Could I connect 4 LNBs from 1 dish to the system so I can record 4 channels from 1 viewing card?
I don't think the card or software is capable of this.
5. I assume I would be able to receive the free to air HD channels - what happens if I want to subscribe to Sky HD (extra £10 /month) when they know I do not have a Sky HD box? Will they ask me for the serial number of my HD box if I simply say I have one?
I don't know, sorry :(
6. Any more light on this 5 week card activation theory?
It's still working and that's probably been about 5 weeks now. Having searched again I've seen longer timescales mentioned - so will just wait and see.
7. Any chance of testing with Vista as this is what I, and I bet a lot of people, have installed on my system. I chose Vista because of its looks, not the best reason for choice, I accept, but it’s all about the WOW factor is it not?
Vista Media Centre is really less appealing but it's likely something I'll look at soon. Literally don't have it set up anywhere at all at the moment but will try and justify paying out for it in the near future.
DarkKnight
12-02-2008, 11:36
My $0.02 :
1. How would you go about simulating the RF2 output to another room including remote control? I currently use this to my bedroom.
The decoding is performed by the card, so you're talking about controlling your MCE PC. You could use an Xbox as an Extender device or use dual screen contfiguration from your PC's graphics card.
2. To use the Sky+ feature of recording 2 channels at once, do i simply buy two Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner cards and join them together? I assume you only need 1 viewing card for decryption?
The Floppy DTV range are single tuners that support 1 encryption card per tuner. So 2 Floppy DTV's implies 2 encryption cards. A pain in the rear I know. You could use a Sky multiroom install (an additional £10 I think), or a regular subscription and purchase a Sky Free-to-Air card as a workaround. Other manufacturers may have a twin tuner HD card which supports a single CAM and encyption card, but I don't know of any. Sky NDS encryption may prevent from you using this.
3. In the picture of the Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV S2 Tuner card there is a cable that goes from the RF connection at the back to a port on the gray box. There also appears to be another port right next to that one, what is this for? Can I simple connect another RF input form the 2nd LNB?
I'm not familiar with the S2 card. You'll have to get someone else to answer that.
4. Could I connect 4 LNBs from 1 dish to the system so I can record 4 channels from 1 viewing card?
Yes, but you'll need 4 encryption cards and 4 Floppy tuners.
5. I assume I would be able to receive the free to air HD channels - what happens if I want to subscribe to Sky HD (extra £10 /month) when they know I do not have a Sky HD box? Will they ask me for the serial number of my HD box if I simply say I have one?
H.264 decoding (which is what the majority of the HD channels use) is not nativly supported in MCE (Blame M$). You'll have to use alternative PVR software such as the excellent DVBViewer. There's rumour of H.264 support in the next major MCE release but nothing's been confirmed.
6. Any more light on this 5 week card activation theory?
I expect Sky will never change this. They like to control their subscriber base! This check is done OTA, so disconnecting your phoneline from an out of subscrition digibox will not do the trick. So once in while, just place your encryption card into your Digibox to keep them happy.
7. Any chance of testing with Vista as this is what I, and I bet a lot of people, have installed on my system. I chose Vista because of its looks, not the best reason for choice, I accept, but it’s all about the WOW factor is it not?
I've been happily been using Floppy-DTV S with Vista MCE. The only issue I've experienced is the share number of channels and sorting them. However, I've spotted a Vista version of the MCE2DVBS app which I've mentioned in the thread above this.
Gosh, more questions than I originally thought. I hope someone can answer them though as I am very intrigued to find out the answers before I buy
There's a shed load of DVB-S/2 Sky MCE integration here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319927).
do I need to connect the satellite dish to the FloppyDTV S2? or anyway to the pc or is just that I need the FloppyDTV S2 and the T.Rex/Dragon to watch sky+ on my pc? please answer my question. Very much appreciated!! :)
you connect the satellite cable to the satellite receiver card in the PC.
DarkKnight
13-02-2008, 23:19
A small update.
The updated version of MCE2DVBS works a charm! So the MCE installation described for 2005 is also full proof for Vista.
That aside, I've noticed that I cannot pick up any of the BBC channels using these transponder settings. Is there an updated Transponder list that could be used ?
Thanks.
Graeme*Kustom*
13-02-2008, 23:28
All the transponder info comes from these two pages
http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html and http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html
Well done on the find for the update MCE2DVBS. I'll likely be updating a couple of bits on the article shortly so will make sure to include this.
thanks for the reply!! I've got a question it's a little irrelevent to the sky mce thing but I can't find anywhere else to post it but say if I want to connect a satellite dish to my pc and being able to record free-to-air channels what would be a good device? thank you for any help you can give me!! :)
Thanks for the responces guys. I think the equipment on offer here is fantastic however as I am currently a Sky+ user I need to wait for a device that has at least 2 tuners on. Shame as I was really excited about this technology. I say this as I currently don't know of a way of decrypting 2 channels at once from one card - unless someone can point me in a direction.
[post removed - not something that should be discussed]
Graeme*Kustom*
19-02-2008, 22:43
thanks for the reply!! I've got a question it's a little irrelevent to the sky mce thing but I can't find anywhere else to post it but say if I want to connect a satellite dish to my pc and being able to record free-to-air channels what would be a good device? thank you for any help you can give me!! :)
The FloppyDTV S2 will do this - before I got the CAM module installed I was picking up some free channels ok. It's worth noting though that a lot of channels that are on freeview (digital aerial) are not available on free-to-air satellite. For instance, channel 4 needs an active viewing card.
harkernator
02-03-2008, 22:21
It's still working and that's probably been about 5 weeks now. Having searched again I've seen longer timescales mentioned - so will just wait and see.
Hi Graeme, has this struck you down yet?
Regards
Graeme*Kustom*
03-03-2008, 22:03
Yep, card stopped working over the weekend there, so that was about 2 months it lasted before needing reactivated.
So yes, it does need to go back in the Sky box every now and then.
I'm bringing in the Floppy DTV extension bay kits and the external version of the tuner as well so to make swapping over a little more convenient...
Methanoid
16-04-2008, 09:49
Graeme, what happened to:
"Coming soon : Media Portal setup guide with information on viewing HD channels via satellite"
RealLifeTM got in the way??? :)
I may be missing the point but wondering how this works?
I have an old Sky+ subscription (from Day 1 of Sky+ in fact) and have not had a phone line connected ever (modem was faulty in my first Sky+ box anyway). If I want to keep this and get a Sky card for my (also very old) Sky box - this should also not need a phone line as it has been through its 12 months period of having to be connected - if I get multi-room do they insist I must connect that box to a phone line? This old box would be just for purposes of keeping card alive. Would that work?
Assuming my £10 multi-room works as above, then could my FloppyDTV enable view/record of all SD and HD channels that I subscribe to on PC?
Recording - are the files recorded with or without encryption. I often transfer content from my Sky+ to PC via a DVD-Recorder but that adds an extra encode stage and degrades quality somewhat. If FloppyDTV uses my legal card and removes the encryption from the stored files then that will keep quality as high as possible, which would be nice.
Graeme*Kustom*
16-04-2008, 13:34
WorkLifeTM got in the way really - I'm just really busy at the moment :( Though I removed the MediaPortal reference on the articles page when I did the Razer Speaker review, just for the sake of keeping the columns neat. It's not been abandoned though !
I didn't have much luck with MediaPortal at first, it would not recognise the FloppyDTV card. I'm now aware that you need to install MediaPortal 'Server' first to make this work - I'll give it another shot soon and be able to look at doing a write-up shortly afterwards.
For Sky - you need to keep the phone line connected for additional 'multiroom' cards. Further - phone line connection aside - the viewing card has to be reinstalled back into a Sky box from the FloppyDTV card occasionally to keep it alive.
I'm fairly certain that encryption is only applied by the Sky+ box when recording - using the PC they're just recorded as MPEG2 files (or DVR-MS MPEG2 when using Media Centre, but this is easily converted).
Methanoid
16-04-2008, 14:26
For Sky - you need to keep the phone line connected for additional 'multiroom' cards. Further - phone line connection aside - the viewing card has to be reinstalled back into a Sky box from the FloppyDTV card occasionally to keep it alive.
I hope I am reading right but I don't need to have the 2nd box switched on except when I have the card in for re-validation? Or if I do then thats a waste of electricity just for it to call home every few weeks???
Graeme*Kustom*
16-04-2008, 20:12
Just switch it on and plug in the viewing card (ideally overnight) once every 4 weeks and you'll fine. Doesn't matter what you do with it the rest of the time.
Does anyone know if this would work with Virgin Media Cable?
I'm wondering will this method work with any other type of cards? this one is a little too expensive for me lol please let me know, thanks so much!! :)
Graeme*Kustom*
23-04-2008, 13:33
Does anyone know if this would work with Virgin Media Cable?
There will likely be a similar technique but I don't know if the Dragon CAM / Predator firmware is suitable and the technique for noting channels may be different. It's going to be a bit of a tricky one for me to do much on, there's no cable available in this area :(
Graeme*Kustom*
23-04-2008, 13:34
I'm wondering will this method work with any other type of cards? this one is a little too expensive for me lol please let me know, thanks so much!! :)
Hauppague models are not suitable for this guide, and I tried a Technotrend card before and it was no use either. Sorry !
Hi, just some input. Applied the theory of your sky integration using the Nova HD S2, and work very well, coupled with the WINTV CI Module and the Dragon/TRex card, is at the moment flawless.
One issue which i am certain is software related, using two Nova HD S2 cards and two WINTV CI Modules still only works with one tuner unless they are FTA Channels.
Can anyone suggest how to get two CI Modules working in mce or is it a question of waiting for Hauppauge to release new software, to enable the detection of two Cams.
And as i'm new to this Forum Hello to all. ;)
Methanoid
02-05-2008, 13:33
Oddessa, can you decode Sky HD channels with your PC even if you have an "SD" package?
No, only FTA HD Channels can be viewed.
And if using MCE none at all, as Mce does not support HD in the UK, unless you use VistaTV, which does allow HD in MCE but as most of the program is in German, its not really suitable for use in the UK.
Oddessa, can you decode Sky HD channels with your PC even if you have an "SD" package?
no... you need an HD sub to view the HD channels (expect for BBC HD and LuveTV HD which are free)
JimmyBoy
03-05-2008, 23:21
Hi,
Im really liking this idea, but just have a couple questions that I would like to know the answer to.
I plan on using Media Portal (Using a server to stream content to my "client" htpc), and seem as how this is my first build I would like to ideally try to first get it up and running the traditional way - ie. sky box connected to tuner card etc..., Can this be done, and then once I have acquainted myself with all the software / hardware (it's alot to be learning in all one go! lol), move to using the CAM and then ditch the box? (apart from using it monthly to keep the card alive), or with this card can you only go the CAM route ?
Sorry if its a bit gobbledy-gook, but I dont know how else to explain it! hehehe
Thanks for a great article though!
Graeme*Kustom*
04-05-2008, 01:01
I've still to cover media portal , but will do soon.
You can use the digital everywhere S2 card without a CAM, but it will only be able to view / capture free to air sattelite channels, which is not really that many of them - most of the sky channels are encrypted.
If you were wanting to capture from a sky box, you would need an analogue tuner like the Hauppague WinTV PVR150.
Methanoid
04-05-2008, 01:11
Def wanna see a MediaPortal article... I'm interested in the CPu needed to run 2 DVB inputs (or more). I have a few so much so that my twin DVB-t Pinnacle is sitting gathering dust waiting to be sold.. I have DVB-S cards waiting to install in MP
Graeme*Kustom*
04-05-2008, 01:26
I spent ages trying to get media portal to work. I understand now though that you need to install the 'server' package to use the S2 cards. I've not had a chance to get cracking on this again, but I will be making a point of it.
My 'to do' list seems to get longer rather than shorter all the time but I really will try and find time this week.
i've used mediaportal for more than a year now. very easy to set up.
RC1 of 1.0.0 is just out, so i'd maybe wait for the final version to be released before doing any guides.
Methanoid
04-05-2008, 11:20
No!!!!!!!!!!!!! MP took aeons to get to RC1.0 and will probably take a year to get from RC to Final... Guide now please :D
RC2 is due very soon.
MP has been "feature freeze" for a while now, and everything is now just fixing bugs.
Def wanna see a MediaPortal article... I'm interested in the CPu needed to run 2 DVB inputs (or more). I have a few so much so that my twin DVB-t Pinnacle is sitting gathering dust waiting to be sold.. I have DVB-S cards waiting to install in MP
So, you have the hardware and you're waiting for guide to see if your CPU can handle the setup? :confused:
Sounds like you need to take the plunge all by your one-sees...
Methanoid
04-05-2008, 16:12
I've got a pile of kit and 3 machines.. its just where to put the DVB cards etc... with a C2D at 3.2ghz, E2180@ 3ghz or low power 4450e AMD with 780G chipset....
Decisions decisions!
JimmyBoy
11-05-2008, 21:21
So, could you tell me what are the best options in light of the fact that sky gets disabled if not in use for x amount of time (as in the original box).
I wouldnt have a problem with the sky box being on permenently, but in another room, could anyone outline the options available? I dont really like the idea of having to plug the skybox in every y amount of time (im quite forgetful!!! lol)
Thanks.
I have tried t get this to work but I am only getting 51 services. I think the card is not being decoded. I had a difficult time finding the firmware and I suspect that is where my problem centes. The firmware I found is: WZ_Predator366_Extended_DCW_150608.dra
Is that correct?
If not can someone please give a link to one that will work.
Cheers
Steve:confused:
Graeme*Kustom*
25-07-2008, 09:20
So, could you tell me what are the best options in light of the fact that sky gets disabled if not in use for x amount of time (as in the original box).
I wouldnt have a problem with the sky box being on permenently, but in another room, could anyone outline the options available? I dont really like the idea of having to plug the skybox in every y amount of time (im quite forgetful!!! lol)
Thanks.
You don't want to allow it to become disabled, because then you have to phone Sky to reactivate it which is a hassle.
Best bet is to get a LNB splitter and keep the sky box somewhere else, and then just leave the viewing card back in it occasionally.
Graeme*Kustom*
25-07-2008, 09:20
I have tried t get this to work but I am only getting 51 services. I think the card is not being decoded. I had a difficult time finding the firmware and I suspect that is where my problem centes. The firmware I found is: WZ_Predator366_Extended_DCW_150608.dra
Is that correct?
If not can someone please give a link to one that will work.
Cheers
Steve:confused:
I'd rather it was not linked from the site, same reason as I didn't include the link in the article. Email us and I'll send it back to you.
Thanks for that Graeme gona send you and email asap
Steve
OK, I found the Predator 364 firmware, updated the T/Rex card and rean the serial number change . I still only get 51 services on scan. I have 2 cables coming in from the dish, does it matter which cable? My guess is no difference as it is a 4 channel LNB. What else do I need to check?
Thanks
Steve
Graeme*Kustom*
26-07-2008, 13:14
The two cables will probably be there since Sky+ needs two feeds - they'll both be the same though.
Really all I can suggest is make sure you follow every step in the article - using the updated transponder list should get MCE to find a lot more channels.
Yup checked it twice for whos' naughty or nice ;)
Steve
mr. confused
I have checked my setup several times now and I still do not see the Sky chennels.
When I run the FireDTV support tools I get the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Everywhere Support Report: (1. 0. 8. 0)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generated on (Y/M/d): 2008.08.02
FireDTV / FloppyDTV devices:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
devices found: 1
Status for device 1
Model : FloppyDTV S2
GUID : 0x001287240400139A
HW Ver.: 01.24.04
FW Ver.: 1.0.1 Build 13440
Driver : 5.0.1 M
Frontend Status:
Sig.Str.: 0%, BER: 0
Locked : NO
CAM Module: PRED 3.64
Windows System Information:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OS Path: C:\Windows
OS Version:
Microsoft Windows Vista (Build: 6000)
OHCI Controller:
Manufacturer: AGERE
Description: AGERE OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
MCE Plugin:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plugin Version 2.0.0.0
Service started!
FireDTV Transponder List:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transponder List found:
Satellite
FireDTV Tools:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Common Interface
Path: C:\Program Files\FireDTV\Tools\CommonInterface.exe
Product Ver: 1.20.0.0
File Ver: 1.20.0.0
Now the FrontEnd Status looks like the FireDTV does not see a signal from the Sat dish. Is that correct?? If so I have tried both cables from the dish and I know the cables are ok as the HD Sky box works fine.
When I run the MCE TV Signal setup, I only see Antenna not Sat. What do I do? Do I have a Naf FireDTV card??
Thanks
Steve
Graeme*Kustom*
03-08-2008, 16:08
I think Signal strength would say '0' if you were not actually tuned into a transponder at a particular time, although I'm far from being an expert with FireDTV. As a useful step, I would suggest trying entering a transponder manually in FireDTV Viewer for a channel that would not locate in MCE and see if it picks up there.
Hi everyone
This is my first post here, but i have been a happy user of Sky in MCE using Graemes method above and bought my floppy dtv from kustom. all has been working well with me only having to put the sky card back in its original box once a month. Tonight mce won't decode encrypted channels anymore. when i put the card back in the sky box it works. My Dragon cam came pre installed with the predator firmware could it be due for an update? Please help as its took me months to convince my wife Vista Media center is the way forward!!
Incksy
I think it's very much a case of Sky+ has it's place, but this technique allows greater flexibility for streaming to media extenders and means you can ditch the sky box itself - seems a shame to spend a couple of hundred pounds on a nice looking HTPC box and then sit on a grey bit of plastic on top of it?
Naturally I realise this isn't for everyone, but it's a bit more than a technical exercise - it's going to be useful for a lot of users. I wouldn't have put time into it just for a laugh, there's few enough hours free in my day as it is ;)
It's interesting that you state in your guide that the PC method of receiving SKY (which is a pain in the bum BTW compared with a HD sky box) gives a better picture quality.
What graphics card are you using to achieve this ?
When I have tried displaying SKY programs on a PC using DVBviewer for example the picture is rubbish compared to a HD digibox. The picture is just not smooth and clear with juddery credits at the end of programs for example. Also The PC that you need has to be so powerful a KRAY super computer would be embarrassed to be alongside it. Not to mention any possible hardware clashes with already installed PCI cards.
Also you make no mention of the cost of the whole exercise forgetting the cost of a super powerful PC (or upgrade to existing PC) for the moment, ( you have to have this to start this project in the first place ). The FloppyDTV + TREX cam + CAS programmer. You wouldn't get a lot of change from £250.00.
The cost of a SKY+ HD box is £150.00 . giving superior picture quality and smooth HD pictures and recordings which are indistinguishable from the originals.
In short this project is bollo'cks and a complete waste of time and money.
You would be better off caddying the SKY hard disks as I do to gain infinite recording space.
The only real benefit of the PC method is archiving programs which can be stored to DVD (Programs cannot be captured from a HD box HDMI port because of HDCP.)
This is not how you have pitched your guide though.
There is one downside to caddying it requires an ongoing SKY subscription to watch the archived programs. But you need that anyway.
Graeme*Kustom*
27-09-2008, 13:48
That's fine, everyone is entitled to use what they wish. The very text of mine you quoted says it's not suitable for everyone, but does mean that a Sky box can be removed from regular use (ideal for anyone wanting a minimalist AV setup) , and that greater flexibility is allowed when using media extenders or distributing media over a network.
If you just need a Sky + or HD box features only, just stick with that as it is cheaper.
That's fine, everyone is entitled to use what they wish. The very text of mine you quoted says it's not suitable for everyone, but does mean that a Sky box can be removed from regular use (ideal for anyone wanting a minimalist AV setup) , and that greater flexibility is allowed when using media extenders or distributing media over a network.
If you just need a Sky + or HD box features only, just stick with that as it is cheaper.
My ranting also was in the form of a 3 non rhetorical questions.
1 ) What graphics card are you using to match, or even excel the picture quality of a SKY digibox ?
2) Do you have any of the picture artifacts that I mentioned ?
i.e. Picture tearing, juddery credits etc...
and finally.
3) can you watch one program whilst recording another ?
( which of course is one the main functions of the SKY+ box . It has special software to share the smart card between 3 independent sources.)
My ranting also was in the form of a 3 non rhetorical questions.
1 ) What graphics card are you using to match, or even excel the picture quality of a SKY digibox ?
2) Do you have any of the picture artifacts that I mentioned ?
i.e. Picture tearing, juddery credits etc...
and finally.
3) can you watch one program whilst recording another ?
( which of course is one the main functions of the SKY+ box . It has special software to share the smart card between 3 independent sources.)
1) graphics card is really irrelevant, it's the display that is important. any card that has enough power to do directx9 onboard (ie hardware and software powered) will be good enough.
2) that sounds like a codec issue. tearing is often caused by poor codecs or underpowered systems.
3) if you have 2 tuners then yes. (sky+ has 2 tuners to achieve that)
1) graphics card is really irrelevant, it's the display that is important. any card that has enough power to do directx9 onboard (ie hardware and software powered) will be good enough.
2) that sounds like a codec issue. tearing is often caused by poor codecs or underpowered systems.
3) if you have 2 tuners then yes. (sky+ has 2 tuners to achieve that)
Hello, just a second who are you ?
I'm not asking you !
every one of your stupid guesses are wrong BTW.
I can't even be bothered to correct your answers.
[GPO]Solitaire
29-09-2008, 22:59
Hello, just a second who are you ?
I'm not asking you !
every one of your stupid guesses are wrong BTW.
I can't even be bothered to correct your answers.
First:
Chenks is a well respected member of this forum. please be civil.
Second:
Everyone is free to pitch in ideas and suggestions to any question asked. This tends to be a welcomed aspect by people wishing help.
Third:
Even to me it sounds like the computer you tried DVB in was slightly under powered. Also ever looked at the back of a "Sky+" box? It has 2 inputs for Satellite cables. It Required 2 inputs so you can Record one channel while watching another.
Please tell us the specs of the machine you tried DVB with. We may be able to point you in the right direction to get it working properly..
saltynay
29-09-2008, 23:36
Also The PC that you need has to be so powerful a KRAY super computer would be embarrassed to be alongside it.
You do know a Sky+ box is a computer right..... Therefore has to follow the same basic rules which all commercial computers do. Sky as a Mass producer will be able to cut 10-20% of hardware costs through bulk buying. What Graeme has kindly investigated and invested his company into, is an alternative method so that if one chooses to they can pay the extra 10-20% of cost and lose the sky box. A replacement of a fully functioning media pc which can include all your favourite films ripped from DVD, Holiday pictures, Songs and now favourite channels and shows in some peoples opinion is worth this extra financial investment. Which in the long term is likely to be cheaper as you in essence halve your energy bills (instead of your sky box and computer running at the same time only one is).
A good tv tuner will do the majority of the hardware decoding thus very little graphical processing is needed. Your problem of artifacts is likely to be a slightly damaged tuner or bad drivers. A moderate processor is required to ensure proper throughput of data but that can be had for £47 http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5635.html if further speed is required then overclock (no extra cost). Ram needs to keep to general reccomendations for a performance PC which is 2gb for Xp or 4gb for Vista however I know people that run sky with just 512kb of ram providing other applications arent eating through your memory.
To third the point a Sky + box has 2 tuners it doesn't matter how clever your software is it is impossible to tune two frequencies at the same time through a single tuner. Its like two people trying to get through a single opening both get stuck and don't work.
Hello, just a second who are you ?
I'm not asking you !
every one of your stupid guesses are wrong BTW.
I can't even be bothered to correct your answers.
i am quite experienced in running media PCs, and i certainly do know what i am talking about.
i spent a few years running, using, and helping build MediaPortal (which is probably the most commonly used media pc software at the moment).
i suspect we have a troll here, so is there really any point in feeding it.
But feeding trolls can be fun :D
I have recently just built my HTPC THe pc parts came to less than 200 quid with
Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H, AMD 780G
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850e AM2 Dual Core 2.5GHz, 512KB x 2 Cache
4GB (2x2GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400
I also added a bluray drive for 70 quid so as well as being a TV viewer I can also watch Blu-ray films thats something a skyhd box wont let ya do :D
i am quite experienced in running media PCs, and i certainly do know what i am talking about.
i spent a few years running, using, and helping build MediaPortal (which is probably the most commonly used media pc software at the moment).
i suspect we have a troll here, so is there really any point in feeding it.
What do you mean by a troll ?
Is that Internet speak for an arsehole ?
Helping build MediaPortal Ay.
Pity you can't get the pictures looking good then.
I have been working with computers for many years and was a computer engineer and programmer in the 80's '90's and early part of the century. So yes I do know what I'm talking about.
Your suggestion that it's a codec problem is rubbish.
The problem is fundamental to the very nature of any computer being designed to display progressive pictures on a monitor not interlaced TV pictures on a TV.
I can only explain your attitude of not noticing the artifacts of either being in denial or having shi't in your eyes.
BTW. The guy that I actually put the question to, has not answered.
could it be he hasn't got a satisfactory explanation ?
This is my last word on the subject I don't want to be involved in a tedious little flame with an obvious spotty unknowledgeable .... I was going to say geek, but that implies you know what your talking about. Which obviously is not the case.
What do you mean by a troll ?
Is that Internet speak for an arsehole ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
case closed :D
BTW. The guy that I actually put the question to, has not answered.
could it be he hasn't got a satisfactory explanation ?
the probable reason why the "guy" (who is the actually the owner of this forum and the shop it is linked to) hasn't replied is that he probably can't be bothered getting into the argument that you clearly are intent on starting.
RazzleUltra
05-10-2008, 20:22
Zero to a*sehole in four posts.... impressive.
That said, he did make me think, that I've had the 'juddery credits' problem for a while now on quite a few systems, that on paper are more than powerful enough (dual core, Core 2, plenty of ram playing non HD content).
Has anyone any experience of this with the CCCP codec package?
I have that problem with juddery credits etc with DVBViewer. Oddly enough the HD channels are fine, it's usually the SD MPEG2 channels. I'm using Cyberlink's decoders for both. I've found them to be far superior to anything else available, including whats in the CCCP.
A few questions I do have is:
1. Is there a different subscription card for Sky HD?
2. Will Sky upgrade my subscription card to the HD mix without selling me the box and installation?
3. Does the keep alive signal for Sky HD work in a non-HD Sky digibox?
If the answers are right for these I'm sorely tempted to take the plunge, watching Man U Celtic with ITV HD and it's stunning, even though there's no 5.1 :(
1. Is there a different subscription card for Sky HD?
no
2. Will Sky upgrade my subscription card to the HD mix without selling me the box and installation?
unlikely, as they pair the card to the box, and they will know you don't have an HD box when you can't provide a valid serial number
If the answers are right for these I'm sorely tempted to take the plunge, watching Man U Celtic with ITV HD and it's stunning, even though there's no 5.1 :(
ITVHD is not available on Sky. it is only available on FreesatHD.
ITVHD is not available on Sky. it is only available on FreesatHD.
Thanks for the swift answers.
I also hate to correct a senior member, but ITVHD is available through Sky. I was watching it last night. It needs tuning in manually but it's definately available. Google for the frequencies etc. it is under channel number 10510. :)
I also hate to correct a senior member, but ITVHD is available through Sky. I was watching it last night. It needs tuning in manually but it's definately available. Google for the frequencies etc. it is under channel number 10510. :)
I'd hate to correct a newbie, but nothing I have found on the internet suggests that a Sky HD box can receive an ITV HD signal.
Thanks for the swift answers.
I also hate to correct a senior member, but ITVHD is available through Sky. I was watching it last night. It needs tuning in manually but it's definately available. Google for the frequencies etc. it is under channel number 10510. :)
sorry but you are 100% wrong.
ITVHD is only available on freesat.. you were NOT watching it on a sky platform.
i actually have SkyHD so i know what i am talking about.
ITV have wrapped their HD channel inside an H.222 container that SkyHD boxes cannot do anything with. i could get more technical but i can't be bothered.
i actually have SkyHD so i know what i am talking about.
As do I and believe me, the forums I post on would soon know if it were possible to watch it with Sky kit, it would be all over them. The whole point of ITV using the red button trick, along with non-standard frequencies which can't be manually tuned in on Sky kit is to keep us from watching it. It might be receivable with a Sky dish, but it sure as ain't watchable on a Sky tuner!
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm watching it with a FloppyDTV and T-rex CAM. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for your answers to my initial post.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm watching it with a FloppyDTV and T-rex CAM.
and that isn't Sky.
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