View Full Version : How cool are tasers?
I'm not placing any judgment here, i just want to know other peoples opinions on this.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/16/ucla_taser_incident/
Be sure and watch the video too.
jsnemesis
17-11-2006, 00:05
Some of these taser cop US videos are pretty horrific and that one is probably one of the worst I've seen.
I don't know I've never been tasered but I thin that being asked to stand up immediatley after you've been tasered isn't the easiest thing in the world...especially if they go on to do it 2 or 3 times after!!!!
I usually end up thinking the cops that carry them have some kind of attitude problem and don't seem to understand that it's maybe ****ing sore to get tasered!
I think, that if a guy with a taser is telling me to leave the building, I would do it without shouting at him. Same as if he was holding a gun or a can of CS.
I also think that if you read the story once it sounds like it's a blatent over reaction by the cops. Second time you realise that this guy has already refused to leave for the security, and they've had to go and get the cops. Even so you think the taser's a bit harsh.
And then when you watch the video and you hear that actually he doesn't say: "get your hands of me". He screams it like a madman, and is clearly (by the changes of pitch in his voice) waving his arms around and resisting the cops effort to remove him from the building you think that maybe he desrves to get toasted.
Oh yeah, and it says in the story that he gets tasered a second time? In the video he only gets threatened with it the second time, unless it finished early for me?
Tasers are seriously cool. I want one.
jsnemesis
17-11-2006, 00:17
Even still, this has nothing to do with American democracy.
No. Interesting choice for the thread title :)
Ye, i just realized the thread title is crap and a bit misleading.
Maybe it should be named something more appropriate.
jsnemesis
17-11-2006, 00:23
:rolleyes: much better
:cool:
A huge improvement.
Thanks
thpthial
17-11-2006, 01:14
I jobbed myself in the leg once with a stungun....
I dont think I will be doing it again...
I'm not sure I totally agree with tasers but I'm not sure what alternatives there may be. Personally I suffer from some heart problems and I've been reading quite a few stories where a given taser can result in death in quite a few cases, I read a really good report a while ago on the issue, but all I can seem to find is this (http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html) which I don't think is much help.
I guess if you're gonna do something stupid it's your own fault you get tasered, but I'm sure quite a few get fired when they're not 100% needed.
Although the company spins it otherwise, Taser-associated deaths are definitely on the rise. In 2001, Amnesty International documented three Taser-associated deaths. The number has steadily increased each year, peaking at 61 in 2005. So far almost 50 deaths have occurred in 2006, for an approximate total of 200 deaths in the last five years.
Some food (http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2894/) for thought (http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A296400).
Personally I'm quite sure I'd probably drop dead if I got tasered.
Truth, Justice and the American Way. :rolleyes:
"Get up or I'll Tase you again."
I thought I was unlucky for for getting fined £6 for a late library book. What's the charge in the U.S. for that? Pepper spray and 5 minutes of Squeal Piggy?
A truly upsetting video :(
Surely tasers are a better option for police over here too?
I seem to remember being told somewhere that some people (and dogs? iirc) are immune to CS. Nothing can be immune to tasers surely. And at the end of the day, if they need stopping, you want to be sure that they will be stopped (but not fatally of course, although that would solve the crime problem)
Edit: Watching it again with one of my flatmates, we both agree that the guy sounded like a madman before he was tasered. And to be truthful, why should the cops waste their time trying to coax a mad man away when a quick plug of the taser et voila!
thpthial
17-11-2006, 02:30
Truth, Justice and the American Way. :rolleyes:
"Get up or I'll Tase you again."
I thought I was unlucky for for getting fined £6 for a late library book. What's the charge in the U.S. for that? Pepper spray and 5 minutes of Squeal Piggy?
well done mate! the funniest thing i have read in ages :) thank you, i will go to sleep tonight chuckeling.
@ ArTizan
I guess if you're gonna do something stupid it's your own fault you get tasered
thats the whole point thought. what deserves a tasering? did that student? what if that student was you? did they enquire as to health?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
Euphoria
17-11-2006, 03:18
That video isn't that bad! Only watched half of it, but seemed fairly amusing to me! May be the alcohol consumed this evening!
redswipe
17-11-2006, 13:38
I've seen a few videos like this and every time I see criticism of the actions of the police I ask myself what else could they have done? He refused to do what they asked and was aggressive. I would much rather they use tasers than physical force which could end up in serious injury to the detainee or police officers. I cant tell in this case but normally US police are carrying guns which means it isn't a great idea to be getting into close quarters wrestling matches with raving lunatics.
Come on though.... So he raised his VOICE, maybe even flailed his arms? Suggesting that he deserved to be taser-ed is pathetic. Two officers couldn't have bundled him out the door, or physically escorted him?
He wasn't a big drunken brawler, or a bank robber. For all the abuse and criticism that is aimed at the UK police force, the Americans are just shameful in comparison.
Why should the cops have to fight and bundle him away. If they do that they run the risk of being injured, causing damage all around.
The guy is the problem as he's not complying with the cops so shouldn't complain when they take action that hurts him yes, but no one else.
That'll teach 'em. Maybe. Hopefully.
Thomas @ Kustom
17-11-2006, 14:37
I usually end up thinking the cops that carry them have some kind of attitude problem and don't seem to understand that it's maybe ****ing sore to get tasered!
I understand your comment, but thought i would just throw into the pot that ALL US cops who carry tasers, get tasered as part of training, and it is sort of as an idea that they know what it's like and don't overuse it.
i've also seen an episode of COPS where a police officer was holding down a criminal while he was getting tased, the quote was quite funny
"Careful Jonny he's getting tazed"
Officer who is holding onto criminal says "Oh I know it, believe me i know it!"
thpthial
17-11-2006, 15:48
Why should the cops have to fight and bundle him away. If they do that they run the risk of being injured, causing damage all around.
isnt that what they are paid to do?? I was 'escorted' from a club last weekend without my feet touching the floor, or me being harmed in anyway. (im 6'4'' and was pretty upset.) [if anyone cares a bloke threw the table that had the round i just bought on the floor and then started giving me abuse, i got a little excited... no punches were thrown or owt.)
The guy is the problem as he's not complying with the cops so shouldn't complain when they take action that hurts him yes, but no one else.
That'll teach 'em. Maybe. Hopefully.
That is not the point. It seems you are deliberately missing the point. the point is the police should have other skills that they can use to defuse/sort this situation out - what if someone is threatening to jump off a building? taser them too? Crossing the road not at a pedestrian crossing? tasering for that?
What lesson do you want this student to learn? blind obedience to the police force?
there was 2 fully grown men, trained in all sorts of things ranging from negotiation to unarmed combat to tasering. these men were both in good fitness v 1 runty comp sci student.
actually when I put it like that i can see why they used their tasers... why don’t we see more boxers coming from a comp sci background?
I feel trolled enough so I best let you get back to reading the daily mail.
cheers,
th.
thpthial
17-11-2006, 15:54
I understand your comment, but thought i would just throw into the pot that ALL US cops who carry tasers, get tasered as part of training, and it is sort of as an idea that they know what it's like and don't overuse it.
I thought the point was that the police used a potenitally lethal form of restraint when it was clearly not needed.
chees,
th.
I agree with thpthial and from watching that video it seems to me that the police were abusing their powers and the use of the taser was unnecessary in that situation.
redswipe
17-11-2006, 16:31
I thought the point was that the police used a potenitally lethal form of restraint when it was clearly not needed.
chees,
th.
Every form of restraint is potentially lethal. Why should the police choose a form of restraint that puts them in harms way when they have another option? How do they know he doesnt have a weapon? The fact that he is already knowingly breaking the law means you have to assume he is willing to do so again. If they use a taser they can control the situation with the least chance of anybody coming to harm whereas they have no idea what will happen if they try and physically restrain him.
Every form of restraint is potentially lethal. Why should the police choose a form of restraint that puts them in harms way when they have another option? How do they know he doesnt have a weapon? The fact that he is already knowingly breaking the law means you have to assume he is willing to do so again. If they use a taser they can control the situation with the least chance of anybody coming to harm whereas they have no idea what will happen if they try and physically restrain him.
But Redswipe, I don't think he needed to be restrained, he was just sitting there on the floor and the police wanted him to move/stand up and all the tasering did was jolt him and then he would go back down on the floor. It didn't seem a very effective way of moving him.
I think tasers should be a last resort kind of thing, I mean would they have used pepper spray in that situation if they didn't have tasers? I doubt it tbh, they would have just been more forceful.
Plus tasers have a higher chance of actually killing the person, so they should not be abused. I don't like the idea of our cops going around with them hell I'd rather they had guns, at least then theyd only use them when that HAD to, not to just make things a little easier like a taser.
redswipe
17-11-2006, 18:38
But Redswipe, I don't think he needed to be restrained, he was just sitting there on the floor and the police wanted him to move/stand up and all the tasering did was jolt him and then he would go back down on the floor. It didn't seem a very effective way of moving him.
They might have gone over the top but I really don't know. It just annoys me that every time we see any arrest footage on the Internet I read page after page of people criticising the police when 99% of the time the incident is entirely the cause of the person being arrested and the police are having to deal with the situation as best they can.
If they had apprehended him by using physical force I'm pretty sure we would now be watching a video showing "terrible police brutality".
In fairness, it would have been easier to have shot him in the head. Then just carry him out and organise the undertakers.
Oh for a perfect world...
Can I have a tazer for my Job that sounds cool!? it'll keep me safe for when the little sods don't listen, or behave! :D
I know of at least one Child i'd like to use a tazer on, or maybe just all of 'em :p
I hate Kids!
Can I have a tazer for my Job that sounds cool!? it'll keep me safe for when the little sods don't listen, or behave! :D
I know of at least one Child i'd like to use a tazer on, or maybe just all of 'em :p
I hate Kids!
:eek: :eek: :eek:
;) :D
The guy is the problem as he's not complying with the cops so shouldn't complain when they take action that hurts him yes, but no one else.
That'll teach 'em. Maybe. Hopefully.
Doubt it. Judging by the onlooker's reactions all those Police have done is alienate themselves from 20-odd people. There's gonna be a lot of resentment towards the Police on that Campus, I reckon. It states in the article one girl asked for the Officer's badge number and was told to back off or she'd be "Zapped" too.
ok....
let me get this straight...
the police make a request. bloke refuses. police use non-lethal force...
maybe i'm just to respectful of authority but if a police officer makes a reasonable request to me I would tend to obey.
it is much harder to protest when you are locked up....
I think thpthial makes some good points here. Police should be used to getting criticism, in some aspects it comes with the job and reflects the type of people they often work 'with'. This example, though, IMO they were just plain wrong; they should have gauged from his response to them that he was no physical danger to themselves. Also, it's pretty damn cruel to taser someone and then threaten a repeat because they won't get up. If the police really are subjected to taser treatment to know what it feels like, tell me this: how many of them are repeatedly subjected to it?
Treatment like this has become notorious across America, so the negative comments here are more strongly felt over there.
I can't be bothered continuing to feed the liberal troll.
I believe they were justified and whatever they are paid for, geting theirself injured should not be one of them.
And by the way, read the Daily Mail? That's more offensive than suggesting I engage in mild beastiality (I do neither). Suggest that again and I'll have to bribe Forthy to ban you (maybe).
they should have just taken him to Guantanamo for being a blatant terrorist and possibly possessing WMD's. :rolleyes:
thpthial
19-11-2006, 16:26
I engage in mild beastiality.
oh go on then, i cant resist any longer.
what exactly is 'mild' bestiality? the mind boggles.
cheers,
th.
shifty.ricky
19-11-2006, 16:28
Anyone think the guy was actually laughing not crying.
Anyway the cops were right the bloke wasnt etc...job done.
oh go on then, i cant resist any longer.
what exactly is 'mild' bestiality? the mind boggles.
cheers,
th.
I'm not too sure to be truthful, I'll ask my flatmate later (he's from the Highlands, I'm sure he'll work it out)
bob_monkhouse
20-11-2006, 21:04
I think the video is shocking. I'm not sure on the law in the USA, but here the cops must use reasonable force when tackling suspects. If I was a juror I would find it hard to believe that was reasonable force.
My personal view is that the situation was handled poorly. Yes the police had to get the guy out, but look at the chaos they caused doing it. What if they had done the same thing downtown in Harlem - their actions could have led to unrest in the crowd and created a much larger problem.
bob_monkhouse
20-11-2006, 21:08
Currently being stalked by: Mr Cliff
What on earth do you mean, Shifty Ricky?
shifty.ricky
20-11-2006, 22:34
Hmm...is this the real Mr. Cliff....well at the moment it looks a bit dubious :D
bob_monkhouse
22-11-2006, 22:56
Hmm...is this the real Mr. Cliff....well at the moment it looks a bit dubious :D
I pity the foo' who takes Mr Cliff's name in vain.
master baits
24-11-2006, 02:31
How can police use a tazer and it be minimal force , yet its illegal for homeowners to have them here to protect ourselves over here?I see a human rights violation if they are used here , and payouts.
I am seeing regularly people getting 30 years for lesser crimes than murder , which is in my opinion the ultimate crime in todays society.
How can a policeman here carry what would be an offensive weapon , yet if joe q was carrying it hed be in the pokey?
Im pretty disgusted with this country on these kind of things , the people that make the laws are so removed from what is a real society that they shouldnt be making laws for it.Much like how I believe a councillor should have to stay in his ward , and in an average house like his/her majority of constituents.
Minimal force just exactly how do you quantify it , for me its determined by Im alive.If the attacker is then they are lucky , because im not making my wife a widow by being wrong on exactly what is the defination of minimal.
Well one thing maybe worth thnking about, surely a taser is a complete ultimate weapon when it comes to robbing people etc.
Why threaten them for their wallet with a knife or gun? Just tase them, nick their wallet and off you go, or even if you break into their house to burgle them.
As soon as they get on the 'black market' in mass, I reckon things are going to go a bit mad and you'll hear about criminals using them quite a bit.
shifty.ricky
24-11-2006, 12:32
How can police use a tazer and it be minimal force , yet its illegal for homeowners to have them here to protect ourselves over here?I see a human rights violation if they are used here , and payouts.
I am seeing regularly people getting 30 years for lesser crimes than murder , which is in my opinion the ultimate crime in todays society.
How can a policeman here carry what would be an offensive weapon , yet if joe q was carrying it hed be in the pokey?
Erm..think about it.
The only people who are going to carry the taser are the police ARVs. If you attract the attention of an ARV you are doing something wrong. If they get to the stage of tasering you then you are doing something very wrong.
Personally if I lose it I'd rather them tazer me first then start dispensing 9mm justice into my face.
So to answer how can the police carry one and the public not....well that comes down to law and order. Using your analogy thats like saying "the navy has trident so why can't joe q have one as well". As a matter of fact it is legal to own tazers in the UK if you are joe q taxpayer provided that you can get hold of a Section 5 firearms certificate. Which are usually restricted to police, navy & firearms dealers. You'd also have to prove a "valid reason" for the licence and to hold a tazer. Self-defence is no longer considered a "valid reason". This section also applies to pepper spray, mace and other "banned" items such as automatics, pistols. Usually people that hold these are exporters who sell tazers in countries where it is legal to do so.
In any case if some **** breaks into my house even if I had a taser that would be the last of his worries. Its the shot gun and knowledge of local unused quarries that he should be really worried of.
Cod Ball
25-11-2006, 00:36
I agree with all the pro police people here!
The guy was being a ****....he had a reasonable way out and all he had to do was stand up peacfully and walk out, but instead he acted like a self righcous fag and didn't listen. So there was his window of oppertunity gone. Next option was to get tazed to show the idiot what they were on about.
It's not like they tazed him for no reason because they're aggressive people, he had a choice and he made the wrong one and paid the price.
If someone wasn't listening to me and could be classed a hazard to my health i'd taze him in a heart beat.
master baits
25-11-2006, 00:53
Im being devils advocate here , but he did what exactly wrong?
Those students have now seen what is beyond reasonable force , as I said if I used one to protect myself and home then my butt would be charged....which it has been already I may add.
S.R what you say may be legal but is it in fact right , we have what exaclty in this country to stand up to political wrongdoers , protests for cnd or closing of mines have made criminals of some decent people.For your interest you would be in jail for atacking a burgular in your home , or any forced agressor especially with a blastgun even a first offence and your in jail , this much i know from personal experience.Whom defines the ability to get a section 5 cert , well that would be the police and local JP would it not.
I dont know the run down of the original topic , but having been around persons with b.d's this is the second time I have seen police get overhanded in under a week for what is in essence handicapped people , the fisr one in person....rememebr this was a college not some scheme doley handout junkie.
Ironically i was also on the attacked persons side when it was the precursor to the L.A riots until I found out the true facts of the "beat down" , then my mind was changed on that particular event yet the police were made scapegoats.
shifty.ricky
27-11-2006, 10:59
Whom defines the ability to get a section 5 cert , well that would be the police and local JP would it not.
rememebr this was a college not some scheme doley handout junkie.
Police Chief Constable.
Does it matter if you are jobless or not when it comes to if you should be tased? So college kids are somehow above physical restraint?
Does it matter if you are jobless or not when it comes to if you should be tased? So college kids are somehow above physical restraint?
I think the point here, is what constitutes 'minimal force' and who has to adere to those rules. As a member of public you'd be in a world of ****e if you did much less defending your home from a burglar. You think using a tazer on a student that was ENTITLED to use his library (his only true offence was forgetting his ID) was minimal?
He only did what peaceful protesters do all over the world. Should we taze the people that protest by chaining themselves to a tree?
shifty.ricky
27-11-2006, 12:36
Remember this is the US. Not the UK. In the US I could shoot you if your burglarized (made a new word :) ) my home and get away with it so the point "if I did that defending my home I would be sent to the big grey house" doesnt really apply.
I think he was right to be tazered. Ok his original offence was only to forget his ID. His follow on actions i.e failing to leave private property where he had no right to be (remember no id card so can't prove he is a student) mean he was tazed and as you think he was "ENTITLED" to use it .. how could he prove he was as he had no ID.
This is completley differnt to a peaceful protest. He was technically trespassing at the time. Peaceful protesters dont usually do that as they do it on public property. When peaceful protesters do trespass / break another law they are not regarded as peacful or lawful so should get arrsested.
This is a whole world of difference between protesting about job cuts at a hospital and then acting like an **** when asked to leave the library - by someone entitled to ask him to do that. The same in the UK...protest away but if the police ask you to move and you dont you can be arrsested so there is no difference.
thats true but its a little ott to tazer him , they could have forcefully escorted him outside ect, without tazers,
He was dirupting a public facility and behaving like a spoiled little child.
Since he complained after the first jolt I think the voltage is a bit low.
so if i disrupt a public place, it would take alot before an officer battered me with abatton, he wasnt being violent. i think its ott
shifty.ricky
27-11-2006, 14:16
It wasnt a public place. In the US universities are private institutions.
well its alot of people out in the open ok they may not be common public but there are lots of people about so same kind of situation, and its been seen by many too. i dont approve.
UCLA is state owned, run and policed, thats why I used "Public" to describe it.
Quote from article;
"Since, after repeated requests, he would neither leave nor show identification, the CSO notified UCPD officers, who responded and asked Tabatabainejad to leave the premises multiple times. He continued to refuse. As the officers attempted to escort him out, he went limp and continued to refuse to cooperate with officers or leave the building"
I think he deserved toasting, he tied up cops who could be doing more important work with his silly antics.
Follow the rules
or get the joules!
shifty.ricky
27-11-2006, 17:41
lol nice motto...that should be tazers tag line.
Ok, most of the Unis are private.
lol i missed that slogan its v good mate :D
Cod Ball
27-11-2006, 18:39
they could have forcefully escorted him outside ect
We've been through this, doing that put's the officers infront of harms way...when they don't need to be. Would you rather put yourself in possible injury or end it quickly and easily?
I know which one i'd choose;)
yes but i wouldnt be so hostile as to use a tazer, they are just jumped up weekend soldiers imo
shifty.ricky
27-11-2006, 19:57
WTF did weekend soldiers come into it? They are ful time policemen.
i was informed that they were college security...
You were misinformed.
By your own eyes, apparently.
redswipe
28-11-2006, 00:54
Follow the rules
or get the joules!
lol They should have that on their police cars instead of "To protect and serve"
master baits
28-11-2006, 01:34
Police Chief Constable.
Does it matter if you are jobless or not when it comes to if you should be tased? So college kids are somehow above physical restraint?
Nope but the behaviour is not expected from the upper echelons of any society , although its readilly advertised as the norm in doley chavdom.I saw a mentally handicapped person get grappled by two copppers last week , all he did wrong was be loud and so obviously handicapped , and he had two carers with him at the time.He was behaving exactly like the guy in the vid.
master baits
28-11-2006, 01:43
End of the day I would have put him the cells overnight , it could have been a prank leading to joing a house.America is getting worse on the freedoms its persons supposedly have , and theres the cheek therin that they use that excuse of bringing freedom to the countries they invade.
I agree though anyone with a spoiled mentality deserves to be taught a lesson , he did bring it on himself , he did ask for something , and he got it alright.All because of a fogotten id?
Funniest thing is he probably was a jumped up little **** that thought he owned the place , now his ass has been owned by charlie and the dohnut eater.Hes actually paid these renta cops to do it when your think about it , hes been pimped.
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