I want to build an HTPC. Any advice gratefully recieved.

[gregsmith]

Hi there,

I've decided to try and build an HTPC. I'm planning to go down one of two routes.

If I can possibly build one that is or will be capable of playing high definition films, then I'm willing to spend more as long as it's not going to break the bank. Does anyone know what the minimum comfortable spec will be for proper high definition playback, that I could possibly add an HD-DVD/Bluray drive too when the format war is decided and a suitable drive comes out?

If this is a ridiculous/unfeasable proposition, then I'd like to keep it as cheap as possible and get the minimum comfortable performance I can get away with for the following functions:

DVD player
Divx/xvid etc. playback
A simple file server
smallest case I can find
as silent as I can get it

Silverstone SST- LC05 Silver (http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1233.html) - I really like the look of this case

I've checked out the mini-itx boards here on kustom and there seem to be two real options: VIA with a built on processor, although I'm not sure any of them are suitably powerful for smooth divx playback - can anyone confirm?
The Commell boards would no doubt allow me to put in a powerful enough processor but I'm not sure if I'd be able to cool a Pentium 4 sufficiently in a case like that, especially silently. Anyone done this?

I'm happy to have anything external that would make the case smaller as I already have an external sound card, tv card and HDD.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far and I'd appreciate any advice.

[six5tring]

Well... with the LC05 your limiting yourself to either a pentium-m based board or the VIA boards. The reason I say that is any P4 cooler that runs quiet is not going to fit into the case. The EPIA boards are good for the price but are not powerhouses...

According to divX's web site...

Minimum System Requirements:
Pentium III 733Mhz CPU or equivalent for DivX Home Theater profile video
Pentium IV 2.4Ghz CPU or equivalent for DivX High Definition profile video ...

Recommended System Requirements:
Pentium IV 1.3GHz CPU or better for DivX Home Theater Profile video
Pentium IV 2.8GHz CPU or better for DivX High Definition profile video


So a VIA board like the SP13000 is only just going to be up to the job although there MPEG accelerators certainly do help. I would have to reccomend thinking about just getting a DVD player with divX capabilities if that's all you want your HTPC to do.

If you really want an HTPC I would reccomend staying out of ITX and going for the slightly larger antec fusion case (on a budget)... this will allow you to use a mATX board so far more component choices and space for good quiet cooling. A larger case also gives you the ability to add tuners, soundcard, graphics cards... etc if and when you feel the need to.

six

[gregsmith]

Thanks for the advice.

I already have like 3 dvd players capable of playing divx - I want to be able to use the htpc as a simple file server, internet etc..

I'm kinda put off going for the m-atx option because of the size - I really want this computer to be small. I already have an antec aria desktop. My inspiration was those new little advent (pc world) desktops that sit vertically in a stand - they've managed to pack core duo into those and cool them. Maybe they've just got loud cooling in them.

I noticed your htpc spec in your signature. Sounds good. I looked up the denon case - all I could find was reference to a mini hifi unit so have you modded one of them? How have you cooled the celeron? Do you play hd divx on that setup or are you planning to upgrade?

[six5tring]

Hi Greg,

The advents certainly do look good. The Denon case is a modded hifi case. Gutted and refitted. I cool my cele-m (478) with a zalman 7000 (with a little chopping). It copes with everything but is a little sluggish going through MCE menuing etc and hense I've recently built a slightly more powerful system in a larger case. Poor denon's sitting about waiting to be reformatted..

You can cool a P4 almost silently using a stock heatsink if you arn't too worried about your temps. Obviously not knowing you set up this may be completely mad but do you need another pc... or could you run a VGA/svideo/composite cable from your pc to your tv?

six

[Archaon]

You're not seriously telling me you think one of these is big?

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/mCubed_HFX_Mini_Passive_HTPC.html

[gregsmith]

I dont NEED a new pc as such, but my desktop is really my work machine and I'd like to have a seperate machine for media etc.. mainly because I'd like them in seperate rooms. I'm also a sucker for projects like this ;)

I agree archeon - That's a lovely looking case. They're pretty expensive and I figured it'd probably be quite big as it takes ATX, but on closer inspection it's pretty small. Would go nicely in a media stack.

[Archaon]

Yeah they are expensive, but to be honest with all the things you want from this PC something has to give. And if you want to keep the decent spec, small size, quietness etc then the remaining thing that has to give - ie give out money - is your wallet.

That case is quite wide, but as it uses risers for the expansion cards it's not particularly large elsewhere.

[gregsmith]

I realise that I'll probably have to spend more than I first anticipated, but surely there are cases of a similar size/spec to this that aren't quite so pricey? Probably smaller ones too that aren't built for the standard ATX format which I have no interest in for this project.

I can't decide whether to really go for high def and sacrifice size or whether it's worth building a smaller one for standard definition playback only. If I go for micro-atx rather than mini itx what case would you advise for a high def system? I'd much prefer a low profile case than a cube one for fitting it into a media stack. I'm happy to go with onboard graphics if they'll be powerful enough.

As usual, any advice greatly appreciated.

Edit: loving this case - http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1231.html . Wonder if I can get a high def setup in there? I'd definitely be willing to put my budget up to get decent enough kit onboard rather than having to have the height for a full graphics card.

[stdRaichu]

Wonder if I can get a high def setup in there? I'd definitely be willing to put my budget up to get decent enough kit onboard rather than having to have the height for a full graphics card.

My HTPC runs hi-def (well, only tried it up to 720p so far but there still seems to be plenty of headroom left in it) with a lowly A65 3500 and onboard nVidia 6150 graphics.

And in case others haven't put you off, in my considered opinion mini ITX is a complete no-go. Go mATX and you won't regret it. As an aside I will say that getting a small case will a) limit any possible expansion plans you have b) (possibly) lead to heat problems. I have a fairly chunky Coolermaster 620 which is more than big enough, but I liked the ability to use standard ATX PSU's and full height expansion cards.

[gregsmith]

Many thanks for the advice. Nice to have a realistic spec for high def.

[Tom]

With regards to high definition films; the format wars are coming to an early end. NEC have recently announced a decoder chip that can decode both formats, for not a lot more money than the single-format chips.

It was inevitable, and even though I can imagine HD-DVD to win out -- the nice thing now is that you can have one drive that'll play both! :)

However, the main concern with high definition is HDCP. You need to have support for it in your chosen display device (so, monitor or TV) and in your graphics adaptor.

Nvidia's PureVideo drivers do help with HD playback, and their GPUs have supported HDCP for a while now. I was going to recommend something like a 7400 with HDCP over DVI, but there appears to be a problem with the board manufacturers (both Nvidia and ATi partners):

Although ATI has had “HDCP support” in their GPUs since the Radeon 8500, and NVIDIA has had “HDCP support” in their GPUs since the GeForce FX5700, it turns out that things are more complicated -- just because the GPU itself supports HDCP doesn’t mean that the graphics card can output a DVI/HDCP compliant stream. There needs to be additional support at the board level, which includes licensing the HDCP decoding keys from the Digital Content Protection, LLC (a spin-off corporation within the walls of Intel).

It was the board manufacturers who failed us. I don’t need to name names, because they ALL failed us.
Taken from ForeverGeek (http://forevergeek.com/news/ati_and_nvidias_hdcp_support_video_cards_dont_supp ort_hdcp.php).

So if you do intend on playing back HD films, you will need to prepare in advance. Though it may be a little futile at the minute. Research required! ;)

[LSG501]

there are some newer boards come/ing out with hdmi on them along with dvi - now afaik this should be hdcp compliant.

[Tom]

there are some newer boards come/ing out with hdmi on them along with dvi - now afaik this should be hdcp compliant.
Yes, well, it is a case of believing it when you see it I think.

A friend of mine has a new laptop, Nvidia 7400 aboard -- there are DVI and HDMI connectors on the side. Though a lack of any form of HD drive might've meant the manufacturer cut a corner thinking that he won't need HDCP. Which, actually he may not without an HD optical drive.

[gregsmith]

I've decided to put this project on hold for a few months. I think I'll be better off when the formats have had a bit of time and everything's a bit more concrete. Great to know that there'll be drives that support br and hddvd - hopefully they'll be able to burn to each format too. All this nonsense with hdcp is annoying and will probably slow things down a bit - Surely there's easier ways than limiting people to a certain connection so loads of people's equipment is obsolete? The monitor I intend to output on has DVI and VGA inputs. I don't really know anything about HDMI yet so will have to research this and see what is possible.

Thanks again for the help. I'll resurrect this thread when I've got more knowledge and fundage.

[stdRaichu]

With regards to high definition films; the format wars are coming to an early end. NEC have recently announced a decoder chip that can decode both formats, for not a lot more money than the single-format chips.

Last I heard, Blu-Ray licensing forbade manufacturers to permit BD to be used in conjunction with HD-DVD sources. The tech is there (between them, Ricoh and NEC have HD-agnostic hardware that works), it's just down to bullshot market politics now.

That said, I'm not buying into any of these formats unit the copy protection is cracked and I can view it on my PC.