PC IN A CAR [Archive] - Kustom PC's Forums

PJ Matthews

27-08-2002, 11:15

Mates planning to put one in his car, trying to figure out the best way to do this. One option could be an Eden (my prefered option) under the passanger seat. If you want a games machien and an SS51 or SN40 etc its going to have to go in the boot.

Some Consoles are large enougth that you can mount your LCD (obviously limited on size to 5-7 inches) in there along with the Eden in place of the stereo and lower sun glass compartment.

The ford consoles and any Vauxhalls after the Astra mk4/5 look to be large enougth.

Really the first part of this project will be taking your car apart to see what sort of space you have.

Big Adam

27-08-2002, 13:44

This topic is covered quite regularly in the US forums, most notably Viahardware's SFF forum.

However, as PJ says, size matters and most of the topic threads begin "I've go a Ford Explorer and I wanna......." or similar.

Would be a nice project to fit a mini PC in a compact car.

I think the principle hurdle to overcome is the power supply. Once you get a suitable solution to this (and sort out shock absorbsion, heat disapation and cabling) it's easy!!! :D

Thomas @ Kustom

28-08-2002, 10:14

The 2 biggest problems.
Heat and power.
If you're going to power a machine from the car, it has to be low consumption.
The eden board are ideal for this cos they don't take much power and are passivly cooled.

Under the passenger seat is where I was thinking.
Inverters that run off of your car cigarette lighter are widely available now, about £39 for a 150W inverter and £49 for a 300W one.

The key being to keep the wattage of the psu below the wattage of the inverter, as this reduces heat.

BTW, everyone know we've got the little shuttle cases seperatly that take the eden boards?
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/product.php?view=1063

Man these SFF pcs are really taking off!

PJ Matthews

28-08-2002, 17:38

Go here for a full tutorial on how to do this.
http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/carpc.jsp

VIA (http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/carpc.jsp)

Graeme*Kustom*

28-08-2002, 19:15

Computer Shopper have asked for some review bits as they're about to do an article on this. Should be interesting !

IggyMF

28-08-2002, 23:23

You should check this out........

http://www.qxl.com/cgi-bin/qxlhome.cgi/EN/QXL/PR/Q1015768045/_35266821

Not cheap tho!!!!!

Gobby

31-08-2002, 12:04

I have a PC in my car playing MP3s, I am the webmaster of a UK MP3 Car bulletin board which is about to go live.

There are a number of ways to do it, the main consideration is the power issues. Another is the best way to control it, I use an IR Remote for changing tracks and have an IR keyboard with integral trackball for general use.

I have a 5.6" TFT mounted on the dashboard to allow me to see whats going on with the machine.

If anyone would like any help/pictures, let me know. I've had an Carputer in my car for three years now and it is now on Version 5!!!

Kynoch

31-08-2002, 15:38

Sweet i would like to see some pics of that m8.
Is the firm that does the bits based in Manchester?
For once something a bit nearer to me. :)

Craig

31-08-2002, 23:34

where abouts can you get one of the wee tfts?

PJ Matthews

31-08-2002, 23:51

Maplins
DVD hardware stores (check back of dvd review)
Just about anyway assosiated with DVD or camcorders.

DarkAngel

01-09-2002, 15:07

Hey, this sounds like a cool idea...

A PC in a car, Knight Rider, eat your heart out! lol :D

PJ Matthews

01-09-2002, 21:17

I really want a touch screen for 4,5 or 6 " lcd for me dash for such a product.

Graeme*Kustom*

01-09-2002, 22:27

I need to get round to getting the stereo fixed up in my car first ! sub, amp, components etc are still sitting in the garage.

Need more time. :)

PJ Matthews

02-09-2002, 00:50

How do you squeeze in a social life Graeme - you found an understanding woman? You put so much hard work and effort into Kustompcs, you'll drop dead when your 30 at this rate :D - be careful mate.

Graeme*Kustom*

02-09-2002, 01:18

I do (amazingly) get out occasionally, but I haven't seen any of my friends this weekend, worked all day and evening Fri,Sat and Sun. I've just finished today's workload now !!

As for women, as I've found out - the mix of really long working hours and relationships just don't mix too well, so looks like I'm back at being single again. Oh well *sighs* :)

Seriously though, it's going to get easier, we're at the transitional phase just now of small business going to medium business and I knew it never was going to be an easy 9-5 job anyway !!

abe

02-09-2002, 01:42

Remember having a conversation with someone trying to guess how long Graeme would last before keeling over. :D

Graeme*Kustom*

02-09-2002, 13:53

I'd say about another 8 weeks at this rate... :)

slarty

30-10-2002, 22:07

I have an SV24 with a 10.2" touch screen in the boot with a custom 12v PSU. I'm going to order a http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/product.php?view=1062 from Kustom though as I thing the 12v PSU from that will be much nicer. I'm making a shopping List Graeme. Does any one have the URL for the UK Any news on this Gobby?

Oh Hi everyone! :D

slarty

31-10-2002, 23:33

Has anyone got a liquid cooled SV 24 out there? I'm thinking that this may be the est way to go for my Car PC as long as the system is very small! I have a quiet PC fan on the system and this has made the CPU temp react quicker to CPU changes like when the processors has less work to do it cools quicker than when I had the standard casr heat sink and fan on it but it still rises to about 30 degrees C I'd be happier wit about 15 degrees in the summer. I use MDM 5 to monitor temp.

anyone really into this car PC idea? Its still PC modding!

garycooper

01-11-2002, 22:55

Please note that even though a car electrical system is described as 12 volt that the usual voltage with the engine running above idle is around 13.8 volts and sometimes as high as 14 volts. Most good car audio and other electronic equipment has a working voltage range of 11 to 14.5 volts. Will the DC-DC converters in the Cubit cases take that voltage range?

[ 01 November 2002: Message edited by: garycooper ]

slarty

02-11-2002, 21:04

Hi In response to Ouija

5" is too small in any context ;)

Also it has to be a touch screen IMHO! A roller ball is too dangerous! I have tried Glide pads, Roller balls, Wireless mice and Voice activation. Touch screena are the best I have to emphasise this! If you go for a "Cheap" alternative like a PAL LCD pop out screen they just do not cut it! mainly due to the poor quality of the composite out of the mobo.

Also I used an inveryer for a bit but its a really ineffecient way of transfering power from DC to AC back to DC and its yet another device to cool!

Get a DC to DC to converter. If you are really interested I can only recommend trawling through www.mp3car.co (http://www.mp3car.co) forum and Lurk for a good while as they have some good ideas including a nice 640x 480 skin for Winamp that I use with my touch screen by Arby!

Keyboard :) Go wireless :) I have Infra red as it incorporates a mouse but I would use a Logitech but the mouse is separate so no go ATM.. I may

In Response to Garycooper

I thought of this which is why I went with a second battery option. I was not happy with the idea of sitting in the car showing off the PC system and then trying to start the car and finding the battery dead..

My method around this was to use a Split charge Relay and place a 12v feed to the boot where a second smaller 12v car battery sits. The Power is then taken to a distribution box which feeds:

Power to DC2DC converter for PC 20Amp (Imported from MGPower TW)

Power to 600w AMP 30Amp

Power to LCD 5 Amp

Power to switches feed

The Split charge relay only cuts in when the main battery is at peak charge.

MDM monitors the +12v in comming and it never raises above 12.45v approx

just my hapenys wrth

garycooper

03-11-2002, 00:53

Slarty that sounds like a good system, are you running any subs with that amp?
My coments regarding the car voltage was in responce to the idea of Ouija who was thinking of using the DC-DC converter from the small Cubit PC case. A DC-DC converter like the one you mention is well upto the job as it was designed for car use. The use of two batteries and a split charger has been around for years in the car HiFi field but make sure the relay is upto it, some of the small split-charge relays used by caravaner's (that's what most split charge relays were originaly designed for) don't have a high enough constant current rating this usually causes the relay contact pads to burn up or weld themselves together.

[ 02 November 2002: Message edited by: garycooper ]

Gobby

03-11-2002, 12:22

Hey all,

Will be releasing the url for the UK MP3car setup by the end of the week.

I'm using one of the black cupid cases with a Eden board and a compact flash running WinXP embedded to boot into windows. All my MP3s are stored on a 40GB Hdd.

I have a Xenarc 7" TFT mounted on the dash - soon to be 'in' the dash. To power it I am using the cubid 12v DC-DC adapter but using a regulated 12V supply connected from the battery to the cubid DC-DC.

I boot straight into a customised 'shell' written in VB - it allows me to use GPS, 'Wireless Internet', DVDs, V-CDs, MP3s and send/receive faxes (for work - I travel a round a lot and spend 80% of time in the car).

The next stage is to allow me to be in constant contact with the office for our task logging system and receive my task sheets (I a Systems Engineer) in my car.

I know it all sounds a little mad but saves me changing CDs etc. Also gives it that little 'wow!' factor.

If anyone wants any help let me know ....

slarty

03-11-2002, 19:03

:D Kust added BT :) now have rudimentary Internet access via GSM Slow but cool! :)

I have a confession ... I secretly want to own a caravan..... Just Kiddin ;) Thats where I got the idea 4 the split charge realy as you say Gary. Also I reinstalled the system recently well like finished the basics today and it is now giving me a charge of 12.90v max so I humbly bow. It obviously differs alot depending on the config you set up. The new system drops to 12.45v and rises to 12.90v. Also my LineIne where I have a DLink / Gemtek21 USB Radio is giving alot of interference. ????? any help from eletricaly minded people much appreciated!. If I put the cable from the Line out to the headphone socket I get alot of alternator noise. If it is that? The system wines as I put my foot on the throttle? Do I need a suppressor on the 12v supply somewhere?

I'll get some piccys when I have the goodies from Kustom :D

No Subs at the moment I will get a second Amp some time and put a nice set of speaker to replace the standard car ones and a nice Sub :)

I also use NetStumbler .... which is nice.... Lots of un protected AP's out there! BTW I war drive 4 fun not to Hack or for Money!

slarty

03-11-2002, 19:09

Hi Gobby

can't wait to see the site!

Where did you get the regulator 4 the Cupid supply?

Also how big is the Compact flash with XP on I thought of this but it was way to expensive Where did you get it? Is it IDE compatable if not is it a CF Drive? Questions .. questions. I need a faster boot up time!

Cheers Slarty

garycooper

03-11-2002, 21:14

Slarty; the best way to combat noise/interference when using components in a car (ie sound source and amplifiers) is to use good quality signal cable and good quality and correctly sized power cables have a look at this link http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp
For your amp. 30 amps equates to 200 watts RMS for a cable run of say 4 to 5 metres the cable size chart recomends 8 gauge (8AWG). You need the positive and negative cables to be the same size. Also make sure the equipment is grounded correctly, the negative/earth conection should be made to the same part of the bodywork for all your audio equipment or as a quick fix you could try a 'ground loop isolator' in the signal cables. With the cables expenive doesn't meen you'll get high performance (they'll just look nice) Maplins have some good priced car power and signal cables in.

slarty

03-11-2002, 22:09

Hi I looked at the site I have at least an 8 Guage cable... I still get the noise? .. I will draw up a circuit diagram and post int on this thread but all the cables I use are ..hmmmm extremely expensive bar the DLink USBconnector

It would be so cool if u could have a look at this 4 me! mebbie 2 day?.. I have to admit I am lost on this. :(

Ta much 4 input I am chasing my tail here

J

Ewan Mackie

04-11-2002, 12:50

Hi there,
Where did you get Windows XP embedded ? Also how is the CF card connected and how big is it ?

Thanks

Ewan Mackie

haggis_supper

09-11-2002, 20:54

I fancy that new via board with the built mpeg decoder and fitting it to the car.
The only downer I have is power. I could build a 12V to ATX converter.
Anyone done one yet ??

You can get a demo version of Embedded XP from microsoft's US site for 40 bucks.
The full version is really costly.
Looked into it for work, bought the demo but couldn't justify the full version.

slarty

13-11-2002, 16:29

try http://www.mp3car.com they know how its done or http://www.mgpower.com hih

J

Chris_M

20-11-2002, 04:33

This guy built an AMiGA based MP3 player in his car, which gets round the heat and slow boot-up/shutdown problems, inherenet with x86 hardware.
http://amimpc.world3.net/

:)

jafb

21-11-2002, 15:11

Just a few notes on PC in a car...

o Average bog-standard old Clarion/Alpine
radio/tape or radio/CD kicked out a lot of
heat in most dashboards - more than an EPIA

o Thus your main issue is cooling & vibration
---- simple rubber shock mounts on the HD,
take out your laptop HD caddy to see how

o Cars are 13.8V and do spike to 16V
--- if just 1 diode fails on your alternator
bridge rectifier you'll see 16.8V or more
--- thus REALLY you need to condition the
car's feed thro a simple 12V regulator before
a DC to DC convertor unless it does that too
(and most don't they assume near 12V input)

Rather than the dashboard, the best place
is under the passenger seat. Just take note
of any rear-passenger hot air ducting & such.

You can also tolerate some degree of fan
noise there, since it's well sound proofed.
It also allows a foam-base mounting re
vibration - a case within a case of foam.
www.penn-fabrication.com (http://www.penn-fabrication.com) do astroboard (a
plastic polypropylene flight case board)
in 7mm and lots of extrusions/lids/hybrids
and latches that can make a car-proof case.
That could sit in the boot/trunk ok too.

EPIA makes a good datalogger for OBD-II/III.

Rav H

25-11-2002, 00:56

Does anyone know the power consumption of an Eden board for each of its voltages: +12, +5, +3.3, -5 and -12? I'm thinking of modifying that Amiga car PSU to take an ATX board but I don't know what currents I would need to supply. Plus this could be a cheaper alternative to buying the Cubid PSU

number1ontheweb

26-04-2005, 17:35

I've built a CAR PC and have managed to get it operating ok, if the car is off. If the car is running, I can often expereince occasional high voltages, which cause the 600W Power Inverter i'm using to auto shut-off in order to protect my PC. So I need a good voltage regulator, which can support upto 600W, since that's the power inverters maximum voltage. Has anyone came across this problem before and know of a good solution. The most logical would be a 12v voltage regulator, but it would need to support a current of atleast 50A!!

pumpman

26-04-2005, 21:06

seen some good one here
http://photos.digital-car.co.uk/

jon bda

27-04-2005, 19:18

http://www.terminalcomputers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161

Vacheron posted up about his on Slam's forum...looks very nice...
:)

number1ontheweb

11-05-2005, 04:00

Thanx for the links, but it will cost far too much money to make a 12v-12v regulator and it will be extremly in-efficent. The easiest thing i think i can do is just get another 12v battery and use a 556 Timer and 4 40A Change-Over Relays (Max 560W 12V each). The 556 timer and relays will only come on when the car is running and i can use them to switch the alternator and power inverter between the two batterys at timed intervals, during the time the car is running. That way, the Power Inverter will always have it's own battery, with no other external devices attached (which could cause interferance and spikes). After so much time passes with the power inverter draining one battery, it will automatically switch over to the other and the alternator will switch onto that battery to begin charging it.

The 556 timer is only about £0.08-£3.81, depending on the model i choose and the Relay's i choose are only £3.61each. So it will be alot cheaper than using a 600w 12v regulator, the most expensive part will probably be the second battery. People who have made a car PC before and have had similar problems with spikes when using inverters, let me know what you think of the idea. It should work in theory, but you neaver realy know with relays unless you try it.

number1ontheweb

11-05-2005, 14:27

Ok, i think i've located the problem, i just went on a full 1 hour journey and the inverter didn't Auto Shut-Off once. I thought about what could be different and i noticed that i had switched the LCD monitor of for the entire journey. Although the monitor is only about 40W and i'm using no more than 400W in total, with an inverter classed for 600W of Continuise Use, it's obvious that it simply doesn't like to power too many devices. Another possiblity is that the power intake of those devices may varie significantly enough to cause the total power intake to be in excess of 600W.

So what i'm going to do is split the load and get another power inverter, just for the monitor. Then i'm going to take the inverters apart, take out the power switches and connect them both to one power switch in the front front of the vehicle, this will be the main switch for the two inverters. This way, it means i can have the inverters under the bonet next to the battery, which will free up the space in the front of the car. What does everyone else here think of this theory, i was running the computer for a good hour with-out so much as a single hick-up, so i think the monitor was more than likely the problem.

Thomas @ Kustom

14-05-2005, 14:43

get one of these http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1768.html

Don't need a second battery. Hook this in line with something like a morex PSU(comes with most cubid cases) then wire to 12v and positive, and hook the third wire to something 12v that only comes on with the igntion, it powers the pc on for you, likewise it will power it off for you. Also regulates the voltage to 12v.

Thomas

number1ontheweb

16-05-2005, 00:24

Thanx, that's exacly the kind of thing i've been looking for, i'm going to be drawing a bit more current than what it can support, so i might try setting up a couple of those in parralel. But i don't know if i'm still going to need them now, i've located the problem and what's causing it, my speaker system was drawing loads and loads current since the main volume control knob was set to full power.

So i turned down the main volume control on my speaker system, by about half and it has cut the inverters output wattage in half, didn't relise my speaker system could draw so much power. I can still have them on just as loud too, i did have the volume on the pc set to about 10-25% while the speakers control knob was on full. Now i set it to about 75% and i get exaclly the same amount of volume, in-fact the quality of the sound is alot better too. Problem solved, i've been using my car PC on every single drive i've been on all week and haven't had a single power cut from my inverter since my last post. I beleive the wattage value i calculated my speakers would draw was only RMS not the maximum wattage, which is were i went wrong.

I'm going to keep an eye on the amount of current the power inverter is passing through, see how much more stuff it will actually let me plug in. I think i should get a proper car amp and speakers, once i've got a new car. I've spent enough on this Vauxhall Nova, it's 15 years old and it plays DVD's, lol and allows you to track your position and speed with the PC's built-in GPS. Don't see alot of people putting this kind of stuff in cars now days.

Just a bit of advice for people who are planning to make car PC's, power inverters are a good way to go, but keep you current as low as possible. A good speaker system draws alot of power, so use a proper car speakers system if you can.