School is useless

[hylian_231]

Today as I was on my way home on the bus, I realised how useless school really is, Other than learning to read, write, count, basic math and english and basic necessities to learn how to azquire what you want and what you need it for, what is the point? After year 9 you dont really learn anything terribly impoortant. Who is going to use Math B (the math I do) in later life? I told one of the teachers that school was useless last year and then I had a detention for a week because they believe I have a problem with authority.

Is there anyone else that thinks that alot of the things we learn in school is pointless?

[ojobson]

Er, scientists and engineers would probably argue with you about the maths thing.

Granted you might not need advanced maths in most careers but the point is it gives you the freedom to choose what you want to do. Do you know what you want to do for a career? if you do I would say your in the majority and who is to say you won't change your mind?

Dropping maths or another subject now would only limit your options and/or mean that you will have to learn them later.


But hey, we all felt that way when we were at school. Besides - who the hell doesn't have a problem with authority? A lot of teachers themselves didn't do well at school and have an inferiority complex so they like to boss kids around. Some teachers are cool though... well, some of mine were.


...of the things we learn in school is useless?

My English aint perfect, but neither is yours so one more pro argument for school :)

[burgi]

Other than learning to read, write, count, basic math and english and basic necessities to learn how to azquire what you want and what you need it for, what is the point?

Yeah, it sucks. What is the point of becoming numerate and literate and learning 'necessities'. FFS! What a waste of time!

[Sub]

heh this came up for the olymics the other day... curling. thnk of the maths involved in that, angles, trigonometry etc.. yes i know alot comes down to experience.. but the basis of it is math. same with snooker/pool.. i suppose physics comes into football with the whole "perfect round ball" crap. (NOT a football fan)... if your a binman then yes, screw school. but i imagine that was the attitude mr. binman had before his a'z'quired job. one's thing is for sure, school doesn't teach social skills very well anymore, or disciplin or respect. it's all gone tit's up (excuse that).. it's all sex, drugs, and chavs now tbh...
/rant

[hylian_231]

I want to do Hardware Engineering. To get into the course you need to pass Maths B for four semesters. I agree with the "keeping your options open" thing, four months ago I wanted to be a Computer Technician.

[Zozart]

I like school. Well, sixth form.

[benelson101]

when your school years are behind you and you have 40 years of employment facing you, you'll realise that it wasnt all so bad at all.

[latency]

Be well aware that most of what you learn in school isn't on the curriculum, if you know what I mean.
I think compulsary school works, as much as I didn't like it at the time.

What I don't like is compulsary maths/english at sixthform or college- Once you're past the GCSE marker, you should choose your own subjects only.

At college doing my AVCE in ICT I was like 'Keystage maths? I don't care about that. You won't be seeing me there.'
And the teachers said to us, 'Then you won't pass the course.'

I consider THAT unfair. I didn't go to college to do keystage maths and english- we learned that in year 9. I went to college to learn networking, and I had to waste three hours a week blagging together the miniumum amount of work to satisfy these damn maths and english classes.

You mught say three hours isn't long, but it's the principle. I did my 11 years of compulsary education, I'll learn what I choose at college thank you very much.

I pity even more those who were over 19 when I was there, and they had to pay for the course, thus including these stupid keystage subjects.

[jacobzcoool]

I agree. (although I am still going to do 6th form and university)

School is useful for getting qualifications which you use to get a job, but you don't learn anything useful, you just have to do an exam at the end. My GCSE ICT course is so easy I could probably still get at least a B if i did no revision at all

[Daleaholic]

Thing I hate most is coursework! Also, I don't think the rest of my life should depend on what I do in a 1hr 30min test!

[jacobzcoool]

Yeah I agree. I really should do some coursework but I am too bored to so its going to have to wait an hour or so

[ojobson]

should really be doing some work on my dissertation or somthing or other...


amazing how many things you find to do when you have a deadline - just went to the oceanarium for the first time and then down the arcades to waste a bunch of 2p's.. ah the life of a student. (Plus i'm wating for my new processor, gpu and motherboard which turn up 2moro...)

[Cod Ball]

I do think some things are rather stupid, at the moment i'm at college doing an IT practitioners course.

In the long term i want to be a Technician fixing pc's and what not, but on my course i have to also take website development which isnt what i want to learn, there wasn't an option to miss that out....now it may be the fact i HATE the teacher or it may be because i don't like it but i just don't want to do it!

[Cosmo_1847]

i got a B in GCSE maths so im happy with that but with English that has been screwed up by people trying to help me by taking me out of french to do extra english lessons.

but i know what you mean about learning stuff that you will never use but as i am doing A-Level physics i am using most of the stuff i leant in maths.

I find ICT is useless, oh look i can use word its amazing bla bla bla. what i remeber about ICT at school is microsoft office. all the stuff about computers and other stuff was self taught.

Ironicly since i have stopped having english lessions my english has improved :p

[hylian_231]

I have to waste 3 hours of my time EVERY day just to do home work, and thats the minimum! I'm in my 11th year of school. I really dont understand how people other than scientists and mathmeticians, need to use algebra, its not like your going to go down to the shop one day and there will be an algebra test at the door and you get in based on what marks you get..

Who needs to know what x(x-a) x(x-A) equals anyway? (other than scientists and mathemiticians)

I do see some importances of school but really alot of it is a waste of time, I believe that we should be able to choose how many subjects we want, eg, if we only want to do Maths B, English and ICT then they should let us, at my school we have to do at least 5!!!

[dave-lew99]

What are you planning to do after school? college? uni?

Anything technical requires good maths knowledge - either that or you'll end up with a god-awful job

I've spent the last 3 years working as an IT technician - fixing peoples pcs and so forth - its very boring after a couple of months and they pay isn't great (this was part time by the way while i was doing A-levels),

I did just get offered an IT graduate job - ironically i'm not doing an IT degree and i'm nowhere near finishing it anyway

But my maths knowledge is making a huge difference to my degree - i can walk the exams, not pay attention in the maths lecture and doing stuff during other lectures - lots of nice equations for acoustics measurements is a doddle - i'm not struggling with it like half the people on my course

[bulldog]

Its not just about learning stuff you may or may not need. Its about proving you have the intelligence to learn new things, and apply yourself to various situations, and that your brain is capable of working in different ways (numbers, words, patterns, creativity etc).

But i know how you feel. I am currently doing a masters degree, and basically, I am paying them £3000, to tell me some stuff i already know in a few lectures, and then mark my work that i have had to come up with myself from books. So in essence, i am paying them to do nothing. All that money is going towards that shiney piece of paper i get at the end with the letters msc on it!

EDIT
====
Splaty: What the hell! You changed your name! Whats up with that? Having to remember your name has just pushed out the memory of the number of the house in which i live! Curse you! Curse you I say!

[Tubob]

Geez i left skool so long ago i forgot what it was like counting on an abacus and writing on slate, how things have changed. Tbh my exam qualifications dont really have much bearing on what i do know apart form the literacy side of it.

[haz]

, but on my course i have to also take website development which isnt what i want to learn, there wasn't an option to miss that out....now it may be the fact i HATE the teacher or it may be because i don't like it but i just don't want to do it!

awww c'mon I know you got a soft spot for sexy Sue really ;)

I think that school is VERY important up to a certain point (up to secondary school). After this stage I think the school system should allow for a greater choice and diversity of subjects. I mean, you get options such as Art, Design & Technology, Languages (arguably), but that's about as far as lessons go from the 'core subjects'.

[Cod Ball]

pssst, just so you guys know sexy Sue is a really old lady who smells of coconuts and has a really high pitched annoying voice :D

[Cosmo_1847]

i did 10 subjects for gcse and 3 and abit for A level. i have an hour free a day which i can use to do whatever but cos its last period i can go home. the homework and coursework is stupied cos a teacher will moan at you cos you were doing work for another teacher.

the thing i hate is that over the 2 years all my subjects wanted the coursework in within the space of 2 weeks, and what happens? all the printers overload and crash. so the printers where printing out stufff which it had been told to print the day before.

I do agree that there are things which you will be taugh that you will never use, in your life. (ecept for helping your kids / grand kids with their homework)

but there are many things you learn that you don't use in the essay that help you in life but these are mostly on the play ground.

[jesush++]

Maths is useful when it comes to computing.

Im in my last year at Uni, and currently doing a course on Artificial Intelligence and machine learning.

Would i guess that i would be using pythagoras theory when i did it at GCSE, no.

My point is that although it may seem pointless at the time (i know i and most of my a-level maths class questioned why we needed to learn some of the stuff) it becomes useful in later life, especally if you want to make computer games :)

[UbT]

Yeh, i agree. School is usless but not completely. I dont think i should have to do as much Science and Maths as i do. I would rather have 2 of the maths lessons i do a week replaced with GNVQ IT. But then timetables arnt created around 1 person. But in maths all we ever do is go over what we learnt in year 6 to yr 9!. And in english Romeo And ****ing Juliet :) Who gives a ****??? lol. Its years old. No one actully cares in my english class :(

[jesush++]

ha, your complaining about 2 maths classes, in year 11 and 12 (4th and 5th year) i had 13 maths classes a week. In Lower and Upper 6th i had 9 a week.

School is only useless if you aspire to be a) a chav b) a scrounger c) a bin man

What the hell is wrong with kids these days, they dont seem to want to better themselves, happy to be a drain on society

[UbT]

Ohh i have more than 2 but im saying they could take those 2 out and replace them. I have 5 a week i think :) but i get 5 IT lessons a week so i guess its fare :)

[jesush++]

I meant to say, the only useless subject in school is IT. its a load of ******. If anyone reads www.theregister.co.uk they will have seen the article on bbc ICT bitesize revision.

If anyone wants to do computing at uni, believe me, maths will be far more valuable than IT.

[DT1]

I had a great time at school.

Admittedly, it was in Forces schools in BAOR, but we had a really good relationship with the teachers for the most part.

[Douche Bag]

The best part of school was the last few lessons and lunch, me n me mates used to bunk half the day and go back to mine and have massive fry ups! :) yummy!

'maths b' or whatever maybe unnecessary, but wht about lateral puzzles? when are they ever going to be used in real life? (in most cases never) It just provides a way of thinking and helps you to build up your own way of working things out. Those 'ways of thinking' help you in real life!

[renegotiation]

The system will never suit all. However, all the politicians just change things backwards and forwards it seems to me. I think all the main political parties should try and agree on a long term plan and stick to it. Some stability may do the system good even without a 'perfect' plan. Also, I definitely think schools need to promote good citizenship more.

[Cod Ball]

Ok, i agree that hardcore math's might be better for later life, if you're doing any kind of programming or IT based subject....but if you know you're going to be in that industry why do you HAVE to learn biology?! Obvously i don't do any of that school nonsense now but i'm fighting for the little man! :p

[jesush++]

God, that ones simple, pub quizzes.

[muddyfox470]

Do you fancy a career in MacDonalds for the rest of your life? If so continue with that attitude.

Ian

PS. I shall elaborate when i can be bothered to write up my argument...

[muddyfox470]

Ok well the above may be a bit harsh, people can get decent jobs and earn decent money from leaving school; but it is getting increasingly harder as the benchmark keeps increasing. Employers are asking for A-levels and Degrees as minimum requirements for a job now.

Maths is one of the most fundamental subjects around; normally you will get stressed over certain problems, but once you get to grips with the elemental parts of maths you will be fine and grateful for all you have learnt. I must admit i did nothing much in year 8; but the rest of my schooling has been productive.

After school you will be able to choose your favourite subjects, or subjects you would like to choose, to specialise in at college or whatever. The reason we have schools is to teach the new generation; without it the economy etc would just fall apart. So the schooling system (the compulsory schooling) sets a minimum standard to enable people to start in their lives. You may think it is rubbish and that you won't need it later on but you will learn quickly that you do.

The maths I did in year 9 through to 11 was simple (looking back on things, but with the knowledge i had then, it was hard enough for most); well it is simple compared to A-Level and Degree Standard. Sure you will always get certain problems that you wonder how can this be applied etc etc; but you have to get around that and hope something pops up a bit later on. I am struggling slightly with the maths and the understanding of somethings we are being taught now, in my Engineering course at Durham.

I have learnt so much in these first 2 terms relating to maths and how to apply it onto modern day situations. As previously mentioned maths is a core subject and required for many jobs such as Scientists, Engineers etc. Obviously not every job needs the knowledge of 2nd moment of areas, double integrals, partial differentiation; just to name a few.

Now with more people going onto further eductation, be it a-levels or degrees, there is more competition for the top jobs, and employers recognise this fact and therefore they can raise the benchmark to ask for higher qualifications; this is just economics in action. However many jobs in society don't need high skills and if that is what you would like to end up doing then that is fine. Personally, in my view, i do not think many employers will accept GCSE's as a base for a permanent job; I found them to be pretty worthless; the only times you see GCSE's being required of you are for working in the shop or where you need to be able to read, write and do basic arithmetic.

No offence to anyone in these jobs, i respect the job you are doing, and as previously mentioned there are so many jobs that need to be filled, and each with their own merits and difficulties.

Start exploring the possibilities of what you want to do and where you want to go, and then you can aim to see what qualifications you will need in what subjects. I was sorely tempted to join the armed forces; they offer solid jobs with good pay, and backing for you to take up activities and for learning etc.

Ok well i shall stop there, i apologise for flaws, and the lack of depth in my post, but i really do not have the time to be writing all this. I myself have somthing around 24 hours of lectures a week; other students will have around 6 hours (mainly for arts subjects) we are both paying the same amount in fees; now go figure.

I don't necessarily want to become an engineer, but i want to keep my options open; Engineering i have found to be a superb subject as it has shown me how to apply the Physics and Maths i have previously learnt to real-life situations, albeit at an elemental level atm. However i wouldnt mind being a teache :rolleyes:

All the best to yourself; just try your hardest until you are 16; and then see what your options are. BUt always try and think ahead.

Thanks, and sorry

Ian

PS. I have not written this post to cause any offence to anyone, so please accept my apologies if it has offended you.
PPS. Just realised you aren't from the UK but still the majority should still apply.

[Samsonite]

There is no point in thinking about whether or not the stuff you learn is useful or not. That's the point of it. It prepares you for the future - the future hasn't happened yet so be thankful that you get the chance to be prepared!

Maths gets more important through life - get a mortgage, pay bills, loans. You want to know a bit of maths to work out if you are getting stiffed on interest payments.

Biology - pregnant chavettes?

I could go on :p

[Cod Ball]

I don't plan to get with any chavette in the first place so that's outa the picture.

[Cosmo_1847]

my and my mate have opposite problem, mine is english and his is maths. we have failed (got a D) twice so 3rd time lucky.

School is what you make it to be and is only useless if you don't do what you have learnt. there are things in school that you will learn that you won't get in exams like making friends and stuff (this is in like primary school or something)

If i do ICT next year for an AS i would want to do web design or a MYSQL based database instead of MS Access.

Our school system has changed twice since i was there. the year was split into two groups called AB and CD which has sets 1 - 5, 5 being the lowest. There was no difference between AB and CD it was just so you didn't have to teach 60 kids. This was a smart idea as i was in top set for maths and bottom for english

This is what they had when i was in year 7 and they brought it back in year 11. There was an upper and lower band. upper band was set 1 - 5 and lower band was sets 6-9 or something. but if you where bad and most things but where good at say music, the highest set for music you could be in was 6. This means if you are crappy you get held back where you are good at. Or the other way around where you are great but get forced to so something you don't understand cos the level is too high.

Year 8 was the best year cos you where used to the school, were no longer the youngest and had no exams at the end of the year.

[jesush++]

No exams at the end of year 8?

Ive had exams every year of my life since i was 10. Being from northern ireland, the transfer test, then exams at the end of every year in school, key stage 3, gcse mocks, gcses, as level mocks, as levels, a level mocks and a levels, and obviously, doing a degree, i got exams at the end of every semester. Exams are fun :)

[burgi]

As a, um ... cough, 30-something who has seen more than his fair share of education, the best advice I could give to any of you lot still at school would be this: while somethings are obviously more interesting (and appear more relevant) than others, EVERYTHING you learn is of some value. It might take 15 years for that use to crop, but trust me, it will.

[uchiha_itachi]

@ Muddyfox470,

Well said Ian! You took the words right of my mouth.

Another fellow engineering student eh? at times I think maths was created purely for the purpose of engineering problems....

[hylian_231]

I do 12 35 minute periods of Maths A and B thats 7 hours of maths a week, plus homework!

Can someone explain to me how maths helps in engineering, particularly computers?

[burgi]

Can someone explain to me how maths helps in engineering, particularly computers?

This is a joke, right?

[hylian_231]

no i'm serious, I dont understand how it helps

[burgi]

Well, I suppose if you're happy doing low-level troubleshooting and user support (it's a cd-rom drive NOT a cup holder!) then you're right, you won't need any maths.

Maths is the fundamental basis of all engineering and computing, you'll need decent maths if you have any ambition in these areas.

Just think of a computer as a tool: you need to understand how your tool works in order to get the best out of it, yes? To understand a computer you need to understand maths - Boolean logic, number systems (i.e. binary, hexadecimal) etc.

At a trivial level, questions like 'How much storage do we need?', 'How much back-up capacity do we need?', 'How much number-crunching power do we need on this problem?' are all mathematical calculations.

[hylian_231]

Oh Im learning about boolean logic in IPT.
1 = True
0 = False

I'm not all that happy as a part-time technician the pay is good but I wouldnt want to do it full time. I would go insane

[bLaXe]

Can someone explain to me how maths helps in engineering, particularly computers?
Engineering deals a lot with physics. Physics relies heavily on mathematical principles to describe the world. Maths is not useful in engineering, it's essential.

As far as computing goes, well think about it: No matter what a computer appears to be doing it is only actually doing maths, albeit very very quickly. If you don't understand maths you have no hope of understanding computing in any detail.

When programming an understanding of maths is also essential (imho). Besides the obvious uses, when creating algorithms and such, I think that the mindset that maths teaches you is very useful. Thinking in a logical way. Breaking problems down in smaller steps. Both are basic principles of programming, no matter which language.

[Alan]

School is essential for drumming into children a reasonable level of education - in other words, the ability to function in our society at least at a basic level. If you were illiterate, innumerate, and incapable of basic comprehension even of relatively simple things around you, how long would you last and how good would your quality of life be?
Every level of education you attain, raises that basic level and leads directly to satisfaction in your own life.
In some regards, the school qualifications have only one real value. They qualify you to progress to the next level. They are merely indicators of ability - your inate intelligence and an indicator to the level of work you are willing to apply to something. If you have A-levels, then GCSE results are worthless. If you have a degree, A-levels are worthless. If you have a Phd then an ordinary degree is worthless but they all indicate a willingness to try.
Employers seldom like to take people who won't try.
There is no greater individual loss than a mind that is untrained and un-tutored. Not only does the society lose out at the loss of some skill, not only do you as an individual lose out in opportunities but you as an entity lose out because your mind is not as well formed as it could have been and your comprehension of the universe - everything round you - is so much dimmer than it might have been. There may be lots of bad things in the world but living a dark, circumscribed life is up there with the worst of them.

[bulldog]

Well said alan, that was very well put.
How can you live life without understand the things going around you. It would be a very sheltered life. I personally regularly read new scientist, and any article or book that increases my understanding of the universe and hence life. Although it may not be useful to my job, it is useful to me as a person.

[Samsonite]

Alan, that is it in a nutshell.