New Athlon X2 is driving me mad..!

[Bullitt]

Hi folks,

I am in discussion with Graeme about this via email but thought i'd see if anybody has any tips here. :)

Just got a shiny new X2 3800+ with an Asus A8N-SLI Premium from the good folks at Kustom. I have paired this up with a new XFX 7800GT as a nice upgrade from my old P4/6800GT.
However I am having a complete nightmare with it, crashes constantly in games (HL2, FEAR) with soundloops. It also refuses to run Prime95 for more than a couple of hours without crashing.

I have a fresh install of windows (XP Pro with SP2 and nVidia 6.70 nforce and 81.85 WHQL Forceware slipstreamed), thanks to nLite (great tool for customising OS installs).
I have also installed the mulitprocessor hotfix from Microsoft and the newest AMD processor driver.
Temps all seem in the right place (30ish at idle mid to high 40's at load)
I've manually configured everything in the BIOS (latest from ASUS) to bypass all that auto overclocking malarky. I have noticed that despite that, CPUID claims the processor is running at 2010Mhz rather than 2000)
Setup as follows.

CPU Multi - 10x
CPU frequency - 200Mhz
HT Multi - 5x
CPU Vcore - 1.35v

On the advice of Graeme I checked the 12V rail in the BIOS and it's showing 11.71v which seems a little low, if the games were the only problem then I'd be willing to admit the PSU is at fault, but the Prime95 crash has me a little unsure.

The rest of the system has been brought over from my old PC and is as follows:

Seasonic SuperTornado 400W (PCI-E ready according to the specs)
2x512Mb Kingmax PC4000 (tingBGA stuff which has passed over 6 hours of Memtest)
2x Maxtor SATA HD (1 is 120gb, other is 160gb)
1x NEC DVDRW (ND-3520AW)
Audigy 2ZS Platinum Pro (with the external box)

Any suggestions are thoroughly welcomed at this point as I am at the point of writing AMD off and going back to Intel.! :(

P.S Sorry for the long post and if Graeme reads this, not trying to bypass your advice in anyway, just looking for some other possible insights, many hands and all that.. :)

[Fat Jez]

First off, you are measuring the voltage in the bios, which is not the most accurate of readings. It is also not the system running at full load. The best time to measure would be during a game or running Prime95 and measure using a voltmeter. I suspect you will find the voltage is sagging more than you realise and possibly not just on the 12v line.

Some PSU's rate their power at peak maximum output, normally the point where you have just hit the one switch. Others quote the sustained power, which can be quite a bit different from the peak power output.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Bullitt]

Thanks for the response.

I realise that the BIOS voltage displays might not be accurate. Graeme suggested that if the voltage displayed was below 11.8v then it was most likely the problem.

As I mentioned, if the problem was restricted to 3d apps, games etc, then I'd certainly agree that the low 12v rail could be a problem.

Would this still be the case when running a CPU test on the desktop..??

Edit: Also, does the fact that the PSU was fine running a 'northwood' P4 2.8 with a 6800GT count in it's favour or is the PCI-E/nforce4 setup different enough to expose a weakness in the PSU that the previous system did not..?

[Fat Jez]

The CPU runs of the 12v line and under load will draw more power. You are now trying to power a more powerful machine - 2 processor cores instead of one and a more powerful graphics card than the other. You may have been borderline on power before and are now pushing over the boundary.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Bullitt]

ahah.!! Thanks for the insight, I was not aware that the CPU ran on the 12v line.
Looks like I will be picking out a new PSU in that case.. any suggestions..? I've had my eye on the new Antec P150 case, didn't want to waste money on a PSU i didn't need but looks like that argument just went out the window..!! :)

Oh and thanks for the help, if this proves to solve the problem I'll be putting you on my xmas list..!! :D

[brumster]

I've got an X2 3800 running with 3 PCI cards, 4 SATA drives and a few fans all off a 330w PSU (granted a decent one - a Tagan). Now admittedly the lack of a power-hungry graphics card (this is a server) drops the requirements by a good 80-100w, so it could be your PSU is borderline, particularly if it's a little sub-standard or 'tired'. Got a spare one you can try out from another machine?

Rest safe in the knowledge Graeme and the boys will sort it out for you, though - you knew there was a reason why you shopped at Kustom, didn't you ;)

[Bullitt]

:) Absolutely, that's the reason I got the stuff from these guys. I've had my fingers burned a couple of times before from 'other' stores that shall remain nameless so I'm sticking with the guys that look after their customers.

As for my current problem, one of the things that was troubling me was the fact that my current PSU is only 9 months old and was happy running the P4/6800GT with no apparent problems, and everything I've read says that the Athlons draw less power than a P4 and the same with the 7800's against the 6800's..!?

In fact if I remember correctly I made enquires with the guys here about sourcing Seasonic PSU's before they started doing them and they couldn't source the one I was after (A3 variation rather than the A2 that was available outside the USA, i think, it was a while ago!), I eventually ended up having to import one from the US, looks like that could well have been a waste of time and money..! :rolleyes:

I'm willing to go with the theory that it may be borderline, but i sure hope that it fixes it or I don't know where to go from there.

[DT1]

Have you tried running with a minimum setup?

Try removing a stick of RAM, a hard drive and the soundcard to see if it runs stable on a lower power draw.

If it runs without crashing then it supports the theory that PSU is at fault/underpowered.

[Bullitt]

Going to give that a go today. Will pull the 2nd drive, DVD drive and soundcard and see if that makes any difference.

In the interests of exhaustive testing before spending any money or RMA'ing anything I'm also going to test the output voltages with a voltmeter and see what they actually are as opposed to what the BIOS thinks they are..!

[Bullitt]

Ok, now i'm getting thoroughly fed up.. :(

Just tested the PSU with a voltmeter. Had everything plugged in and fired up a couple of instances of Prime95 to max out the CPU.

12v rail is showing a lowest of 12.41v
5v is showing a lowest of 5.22v
3.3v lowest is 3.38v

So these readouts would seem to indicate that the PSU is fine..!? Any other ideas folks.? I'm not far from admitting defeat and sending this stuff back. :(

[shifty.ricky]

I have a dual core 4400, 2gb ram, 3 hdds, 1 dvd and x850xt pe running off a seasonic 600w. The lowest rail I get is 11.58V on the 12v and I have no stability issues.

so I am guessing that a low of 12.41 is not that bad however a little high.

[Bullitt]

Yeah, I've pretty much discounted the PSU as being a problem after getting those results.
I've had memtest running for the last 6 odd hours to definately rule out the memory as a factor and i've retested the PSU while that's been running. The lowest reading i've gotten on the 12v rail so far has been 12.10v

After someone mentioned in another thread that there is some kind of compatibility issue with kingmax memory and asus boards I'm lookng into that, but nothing yet.
Other than that I am outta ideas. :(

[Davos]

sry cant be bothered reading whole thread but try this...

set ram to ddr333 at 2T and then test. your mem controller on cpu may be duff and cant run stable at ddr400. i had same prob with old winnie.

[Bullitt]

Ok, this is getting weirder and weirder but i think we may have narrowed the problem down to some part of the memory subsystem.

Changed the memory setup to DDR333 and it started falling over almost as soon as it got into Windows.. !?!? That's worse than at DDR400.
So I switched back to 400 and manually set the timings to the specs for the memory which is 5-5-10 CL3. Yep, you read that right..!
Anyway, thought that had fixed it as it was stable for a while, lasted longer in FEAR than it has up to now. Still crashed though, after about 30-40 minutes. Changed the memory setup to DDR333 with the same slack timings and it crashed again almost immediately..?!?! Confused yet.? I am.

So, i'm about to switch out the memory from my wife's PC and see what happens then, it's Crucial stuff DDR333 i think so hopefully that will finally narrow it down to either memory or memory controller.

Wish me luck..! God I am sick of this system.. :p

[Bullitt]

Me again..

Hopefully a final update... replaced my shonky Kingmax memory with a couple of 256Mb sticks of old crucial DDR333 from my wife's PC.
Seems to have solved the problem.. just blasted through an hour of FEAR with no problems (well aside from it being glitch-o-vision with only 512Mb to play in)

So, it looks like I need some new memory, that Kingmax stuff was the first non-Crucial memory I had bought in a few years and it looks like it might be the last. Might just have to get myself 2Gb to cheer myself up after wasting a week messing about with this thing.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, doubt i'd have gotten here without you guys. Gonna go and leave the PC running Prime95 for the rest of the night and hopefully that'll be the end of it..

TTFN. :)

[kempez815]

Kingmax sucks ass. NF4 is picky as FCUK. Get some decent branded memory: Kingmax has had too many issues for me to ever buy it. Soz man :(

[s29feb]

£159.95 x 1 - Crucial 2GB (2x1GB) DDR PC4000 Ballistix Dual Channel Kit

Have to add vat and delivery but this is an offer on another well known (for shonky service) site

At this price though I could not pass it by, PM me if you want the details.

[shifty.ricky]

I use corsair. I used to be a smasung original man but I changed to corsair.

[Bullitt]

Well guys, Prime95 is still running just fine, that's over 16 hours now so I think I can say that my old memory was just a little bit poop..! :)

Hasn't been wasted though, it's been shuffled over to my wife's PC which seems to be dealing with it fine (old athlonXP on nf2), and it won't see another game in it's life over there..! :p

Anyhoo, gonna go order some memory now, definately gonna take the chance to go with 2Gb, just need to pick between Crucial ballistix or Corsair. Probably go with the crucial as i've never had a single issue with their stuff.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.. You've been great..

Oh and I know the site of which you speak with the memory, but after the last RMA issue i had with them almost ended up with lawyers involved I swore never to buy anything from them again.

Must... resist... temptation.. to ..tart..myself.. out.. to ..the..lowest .. price.. :D

[Lomax]

There was another thread where someone was asking for advice on Kingmax so I looked up some reviews. One of the reviews said that they had to up the voltage, just to get it stable at default settings. Perhaps this may have had something to do with it, especially if it was crashing in a game known to be very power hungry and ram intensive. Still, doesn't really matter now as you have decided to buy some new stuff anyway. For the record, I use Corsair, as per sig, and it runs like a dream. I had to up the voltage to 2.8 to get it stable in the SN25P.

[Bullitt]

Yeah, i'd already upped the voltage on the memory. Motherboard was setting it on auto to 2.6v, specs said it should be at 2.7v so i tried that.. then went up as far as 2.8v before I gave up.. I figured if I needed to go that high just to get it stable at stock speeds and timings (which were already very loose), then I would have had no chance with it as and when I decide to see just how far this 3800+ will go.

As a matter of fact, thinking back, when I first got this memory for my old P4, after a couple of weeks of intermitant crashes I had to dial the overclock back from 3.2 to just a fraction under 3Ghz which with hindsight was probably the fault of the memory.

As I said before though, it's not a huge loss as the Kingmax seems happy in my wife's PC, it's given it a bit of a boost for free so.. ;)