View Full Version : USA Grand Prix
Daleaholic
19-06-2005, 20:25
This is stupid :o I'm not surprised the spectators are peed off. Whats everybody's view on this? I think the FIA are idiots, its not exactly hard to put a checane (sp?) in is it? :mad:
edavies87
19-06-2005, 20:35
They could of sorted this out this morning but no they leave it til the last hours! It is a joke and a shame for all the fans who turned out! Why do the FIA have to interfere! TOO MUCH RED TAPE EVERYWHERE!!!
Ed
well putting a chicane in just to help out the michelin teams would have been a bit unfair for the bridgestone teams.
you wouldn't modify the goals in a football match just because one team couldn't kick the ball straight due to a dodgy batch of boot studs.
the only person to blame here is Michelin as they have clearly failed. 9 tyres failing is just very poor.
I can understand why the teams took the decision to withdraw from the race. Would you ask one of your drivers to race if there was a good chance the tyre might let go at high speeds? Frankly, this is a good reason to have a standard tyre manufacurer, a policy which I believe the FIA is looking to adopt in future.
Cheers,
Stephen
[GPO]Solitaire
19-06-2005, 20:46
It's just a joke! There is only a handfull of fans there and those are peed off!! Some are throwing bottles and items onto the track making it a hazzard to drivers and the course officials that have to clear it before the cars pass.
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 20:54
You may well have seen the beginning of the end for F1. The break away series will raise its head again in the press this week.
The FIA was already going way too far by introducing just one tyre. Also don't forget that all teams APART from ferrari were agreed not to race until Jordan let the temptation of a boat load of points come their way.
A very very sad day.
At this rate there will just be the FIA and ferrari left.
[GPO]Solitaire
19-06-2005, 20:56
the only person to blame here is Michelin as they have clearly failed. 9 tyres failing is just very poor.
They were tying to put it right, but if the DID bring in new tyres they would have broken about 5 FIA rules, also the teams would not have time to set the cars up for the new tyres, this would have caused probably just as many accidents as they would have had if they kept and ran on the origional tyres with or without the chicane in place.
edit:
just heard that they might go to a single tyre supplier in the 2008 season.
Jordan probably has to take a load of the blame to! if they stuck with the rest we would probably be watching a good race by now!
bet's on M Shuemaker still can't get the chequred flag in this race? :D:D :)
changing the track layout would have caused problems too.. as the cars would need to be setup for that new configuration. to ask to change the track just because they brought the wrong tyres is not good enough. it's a slap in the face for the teams that brought the correct tyres (bridgestone).
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 21:11
The chicane would have sorted it out by reducing speed for the last corner, simple as that.
As a result its killed F1 in America.
and what about the bridgestone teams the PJ? why should they be penalised just because oppostition teams have dodgy tyres.
i use again the same comparision... celtic arrive at ibrox for a crucial league game, on warm up they find that the studs they have brought are dodgy and make them kick the ball squint, they go to the referee and say we need the goalposts moved because our studs are faulty.
it's never gonna happen. it was an unfair "fix". and lets be honest, F1 was never big in USA anyway!
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 21:34
A stud falling off won't kill anyone in the stands or the player will it? Geezzz.
There were so many ways out of this today.
Lets not forget F1 has really really built up over the past few season in the U.S, its all gone now.
it might if the ball hit them square in the face due to that stud !
tha bottom line is... you can't just change the rules because one team (or many teams in this instance) has a problem with a part, be it a tyre, brake, body work etc. if they have a problem which means they can't compete, then they don't compete.
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 21:47
it might if the ball hit them square in the face due to that stud !
You should go work for the FIA, you have a similar mentality.
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 21:49
Also Chenks you may not know this but the Michelin runners were prepared to:
Run without championship points (just the brigdestone runners gaining points)
Run with the bridgestoners runners starting from the front.
If the chicane was added.
Like I said this could of been avoided.
why even bother having the race then if you are going to change everything.
having the michelin drivers running just for the show is putting their lives at risk just for the joy of the spectators (even if a chicane was put in place).
i stick to my point.. if you can't race safely then simply don't race. don't try and change the rules just to suit yourself. it's not the fault of the bridgestone teams and their race shouldn't be changed because of it.
if that creates a poor race in the eyes of the spectators then so be it. but having watched the race their seemed to be plenty of fans stuck about to the end and not all of them were boo-ing.
and yes i did not about all the other supposed offers to get the michelin teams to race.
slartiBardfarst
19-06-2005, 21:58
it might if the ball hit them square in the face due to that stud !
tha bottom line is... you can't just change the rules because one team (or many teams in this instance) has a problem with a part, be it a tyre, brake, body work etc. if they have a problem which means they can't compete, then they don't compete.
i don't think your quite grasping the big picture. countless millions watch around the world, 120,000+ people paid to watch a race, they deserved to get a race. the teams offered to race (in sorts), start at the back and take no points purely to give people something to watch. F1 is nothing without viewers and will have lost millions of them today. sure safety is very important but it needs to be balanced with common sense.
no you haven't grasped the point i made.
every time a driver goes on the track he is risking his life by racing. to take away the points he might win removes any desire he would have to risk his life racing.
surely everyone would accept that to race just to "put on a show" with no prize is not worth risking your life for, no matter how many people are watching.
PJ Matthews
19-06-2005, 22:11
They were only there because they payed $85+. Don't worry, they won't be there next year! :rolleyes:
This is a spectator sport, everything should have been done for the spectators. It wasn't, they will be gone soon enough.
slartiBardfarst
19-06-2005, 23:04
no you haven't grasped the point i made.
every time a driver goes on the track he is risking his life by racing. to take away the points he might win removes any desire he would have to risk his life racing.
surely everyone would accept that to race just to "put on a show" with no prize is not worth risking your life for, no matter how many people are watching.
i would completely disagree with that, and so DID some of the drivers. they wanted to race, that is what they want to do above all else. it's more the team bosses obsessed with point standings because so much money rides on them. drivers want to drive.
I just hope that the six cars which raced all blow up at the next race (IIRC that was the first race for each car, which now has to do 2 races).
I was at work during the GP, and totally managed to avoid it all on the news etc as I was recording it. The other half has been texting me like mad telling me to have a look.
Just got home to watch it
WTF..
[GPO]Solitaire
20-06-2005, 02:27
The FIA have changed track layouts for safety reasons in other seasons, why not this time? If there was only 2 or 3 teams using the Michelin tyres then i could agree with the FIA. but with all but 2 teams on Michelin tyres it seemed stupid to put the safety of the drivers at risk and not change the track.
Major Stare
20-06-2005, 08:29
Putting a chicane in and letting the race proceed with only Bridgstone drivers getting points would have been fair. Letting the race run with just 6 cars has damaged the sport even more.
The main problem is Bernie Ecclestone & FIA........... MUPPETS !!!!!
Loved the interview on ITV just before the race with Mark Blundell...... was basically telling Bernie he was a pratt and expressing his anger for the viewers, then went to talk to his wife to find some "normal pills"..... classic :D
chenks mate i think your missing one rather large point. the teams who were with michelin were not at fault. michelin were. yes they risk their lives to race, but every effort is made to make it as safe as possible. if there is a factor in the race where they knew something has already failed and could kill someone, it's insanity to go ahead. it's like getting in a car, knowing the engine could and probably will blow up and kill you and other innocent people. and just driving off anyway regardless.
it isn't the teams faults so why should they suffer, it's michelin that has caused the problem, it's not like the teams did anything wrong. and it was michelin who were asking for the extra slow down turns.
it was apaulling that they didn't at least change the track. and the fact that Ferrari got some free points will have stirred the season up something stupid. a postponned race or change of the course would have been harmless. putting peoples lives at risk is silly under those kind of circumstances. but going ahead with the race as it was has completely destroyed it in the states.
danielctull
20-06-2005, 09:25
no you haven't grasped the point i made.
every time a driver goes on the track he is risking his life by racing. to take away the points he might win removes any desire he would have to risk his life racing.
surely everyone would accept that to race just to "put on a show" with no prize is not worth risking your life for, no matter how many people are watching.
No prize? What about the cash in advertising that they surely lost this race? That's enough of a reason to race at all, these advertisers pay for Formula 1. Well them and the fans going to watch it. Oh and would have kept them happy too. Perhaps I'm wrong, but with the new tyres (or this track layout change), they could have raced, earned money from sponsors and kept the fans happy.
At the end of the day, I feel sorry for the Americans because from what I have read on an international forum, they just don't understand why it all happened. The majority blamed the drivers, some blamed Michelin, none of them blamed the FIA, because they don't get into the politics of F1...
My interest in F1 has waned so much over the past 4 years or so that I've yet to watch a race this season- shame I didn't watch it yesterday!!! From what I have seen it looks like a right hoot! Ironic that ITV just shed a load of programmes from it's flaccid schedule to find it has a sports-based, reality-comedy under it's nose.
This is all actually good news cos many of the outdated, convoluted rules and rulemakers won't survive this fiasco. A break-away competition or a TOTAL revamp is on the cards.
Just don't expect the new competition to race in the States...
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Chenks.
Formula 1, is a sport that is only there to have spectators, and to amuse them, at teh end of the day, it is like going to the theatre. And Sundays' race was like going to watch Jack and the Beanstock, but the only actors that the director wanted to get a part were Jack and the two actors that played the cow ... completely pointless.
SO much could have been done to put on a show, michelin held up there hands after Friday Practice, and Saturday Qualifying saying that they had made a mistake, and begged the FIA to allow them to get better tyres, or alter the track, so that the show could still go on... but Bernie didn't, and everyone knows that he should have.
Personally if I was there, after paying that much money to go and see it, I would be demanding my money back, the only reason so many people stayed, was that they were pig-headed Schumacher fans, or adrenalin shot Indians.
If Ferrari had went along with the rest, then perhaps the FIA would have been forced to do something, but as it was, they didn't and forced another two teams into having no choice but to race. But Ferrari are, sorry, a DELETED of a racing team.
SOO much could have been done to put on a good show...
SOO much could have been done to stop this from happening ... but it wasn't.
slartiBardfarst
20-06-2005, 19:01
you may not like ferrari but it's not their fault. the FIA are there and have the overriding power to make sure F1 runs properly, it's their fault for not making a decision. bernie was also a waste of space.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the teams that have signed up for this break away championship are all Michelin runners ;) The FIA will make life as difficult for those teams as possible, any indiscretion will be punished heavily, as demonstrated by BAR's 3 race ban. If Max had his way BAR would have been out of the championship completely.
Sure the problem was caused by Michelin, but you have to blame the FIA for not finding a suitable solution. The teams were against the new tyre rules from the start but the FIA ignored them. The teams asked for a single tyre manufacturer and the FIA ignored that. The qualification system has already been changed and we're not even half way through the season. The FIA seem to be making decision with little thought to the consequences and then when things all goes pear shaped blaming everyone else :rolleyes:
DarkEntity
20-06-2005, 23:12
its all the FIA's fault in the long run....ill explain my view...
Michelin tyres were found to be faulty after a crash
Michelin then advised FIA of the possible danger
FIA advised all the teams
Michelin then told FIA they would repace all the tyres with a brand new batch flown in before the race
FIA refused this offer
A chicane was suggested to slow the cars down, FIA again refused
Michelin runners all pulled out
Why should the bridgestone runners do the same when its purely choice by the team in tyre manufacturer, if it was me on Bridgeston id have raced
FIA could have solved entire problem long before race but didnt!
Farcical race begins
NONE of this being Ferrari, Jordan or Minardi's fault, they are getting paid by sponser to race, teams are paying drivers to race..so why shouldnt they?
im glad they raced, made it interesting for the first time in ages :)
In the end the FIA are solely to blame imo as they had ample oppertunity to resolve the problem...but didnt!
THE BEAST
20-06-2005, 23:15
Having only recently come back to watching F1 and enjoying it I felt not only let down by what happened in the US but I was also let down by those morons in the crowd that were throwing beer cans onto the fastest part of the track :mad:
well, there was nothing much any1 can do about the morons throwing things on the track, forgive me but, they are americans after all. the US f1 race ended up as stalemate. The michelins runner could not race on the track as it stood, due to safety reasons. (if anything happened they would get sued into oblivion in the litagition country of world). They could not "race slowly" round the the banked curve, again due to safty. The FIA could have added a chicane, but only if the bridgestone runners agreed. As far as i can see, the FIA never even concidered this and said no, no to the new tires (sticking blindly to the rules, no relising the outcome) and no the chicane. Ferrari simply took the FIA line as they have done in the past, effectivly blocking any outcome. The chicane was not without is drawbacks, and this i think is why it was never allowed. By adding the chicane in the main corner, u change the length of the track, and it seems obvious, the running of the track. The cars are fine tuned to each track, changing the track at the last minute could be dangerous as no1 would know wot effects the change may have. This of course could be changed if the teams new of the change in advance and had time to test. But with ferrari taking the FIA rules line, and the FIA unwilling to see the outcome of this until it was too late, the race was doomed.
The FIA has a responsiblity to put on a show, thats what it's there for, because that is wot makes the money. It has rules to this effect. The FIA is charging all the teams that didn;t race under these rules
• failed to ensure that they had a supply of suitable tyres for the race
• wrongfully refused to allow their cars to start the race
• wrongfully refused to allow their cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tyres as they had available
• combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula One by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race
• failed to notify the stewards of their intention not to race, in breach of Article 131 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
to me, all of these regulations are there to ensure that the teams put on a show. but, surely safety should take precedence? the teams could not race because of safety. They suggested ways that the race could still go ahead, and the FIA blocked them. So surely the FIA is charging the teams (which i beleive will be contested, and quite possibly will tear the sport appart) for something it is partly responsible for.
my opinion is that all specators at the race should get their money back, if nothing else as a face saving exercise. F1 racing in america has pretty much be killed. americans will look at that race, then at there own indy series. take a guess where they will go? (and to think the FIA were complaining that the race hadn;t been advertised and hyped enough, how ironic)
In the end i personally blame michelin for starting this mess. the FIA for not fixing it when they had the chance, the bosses at ferrari for being their usual selves (win at all costs at **** the rest). This was avoidable, but a lack of comon sense and sticking blindly to a set of all encompassing regulations has turned it in mess. A mess that is going to get worse as the accusations and cross arguements start flying between the teams FIA and michellin.
There will be casulaties. We need to wait and see who they will be. Perhaps this is needed to sort the sport out?
</rant>
DarkEntity
22-06-2005, 22:43
the bosses at ferrari for being their usual selves (win at all costs at **** the rest).
you cant blame Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi for other teams using different tyres, and u cant blame them for racing, why shouldnt they, nothing wrong with their cars....that statement of yours is like a sprinter not running because some other guy has pulled out due to a hamstring.
utter rubbish...if things were reversed the other teams would have also raced.
the loyalties should be to the fans. i understand y ferrari did wot thet did. but, they shouldn;t of. by taking the FIA hard line (and locking the FIA to it also) they managed to prevent what could have been an entertaining race (even with only the bridgestones getting points) yes its michellins fault for not having good enough tires, no bridgestone should not have been penalised. but things should have been sorted so there was at least a race and not just 2 red cars driving in front with 4 behind making a lot of noise. a mistaked caused this, bull headed arrogance made it worse. i beleive ferrari could have helped fix the mess, but choose not to. ferrari took the FIA line, they usually do. this time the FIA were wrong. following orders is no excuse. all teams should have come to an arrangement where by every1 took part. the michellins gave options, none were taken, and the FIA offered no others.
also, if it has been the other way round, then yes indeed the others would have raced, it would have been a shame to see them missing from the race, but there would be more cars on the track racing. there would be a more balanced track. there would have been a race.
there was no race at USA.
Michelin offers refund to US fans
Michelin teams await fate
Michelin has offered to refund the 120,000 spectators who bought tickets for the farcical US Grand Prix.
The tyre company made the offer just hours before Wednesday's disciplinary hearing involving the seven teams that refused to race over safety concerns.
The teams face charges of bringing the sport into disrepute and could be docked championship points.
Michelin also offered to buy 20,000 tickets for the 2006 US Grand Prix to be given to this year's fans.
A company statement read: "Michelin deeply regrets that the public was deprived of an exciting race and therefore wishes to be the first, among the different groups involved in the race, to make a strong gesture towards the spectators.
"This is an important decision, since Michelin is not at all legally bound to do this."
The Michelin gesture may reduce the risk of the teams - championship leaders Renault, McLaren, Williams, Toyota, Sauber, Red Bull and BAR - being heavily sanctioned by Formula One's governing body, the FIA.
The governing body will always win
Max Mosley, FIA president
F1 teams 'ready to boycott races'
Meanwhile, company chairman Edouard Michelin has contacted FIA president Max Mosley to complain about comments he made in the wake of the Indianapolis fiasco.
He acted after a fax Mosley sent to the company was subsequently circulated to the press.
Michelin claims Mosley's comments had a "suspicious and inappropriate tone". "Such disclosure, which contains erroneous allegations, may have damaging consequences on Michelin's reputation," he wrote.
"Will you at least recognise publicly that we have taken a courageous, honest and transparent stance for the safety of the pilots (drivers)?," he asked in the letter.
"I hope you will be fair enough to acknowledge that Michelin, with its seven partner teams... did the maximum to preserve a true and safe race by proposing a very serious and pragmatic alternative.
"This is all the opposite of a boycott," he added.
He said the company was "very disappointed about the way the United States Grand Prix turned out" but added "safety is and has always been the first priority for Michelin".
But in a reply published on Wednesday, Mosley rejected Michelin's comments.
"We cannot agree with your claim that Michelin did the maximum to preserve a true and safe race," Mosley wrote.
"You failed to bring a back-up tyre to the event and your representatives apparently refused to countenance any solution other than a chicane. Anyone with knowledge of the International Sporting Code or an appresiation of the legal climate in the United States would know that a chicane was never an option."
[i]Source: BBC Sport
Well in Michilin I say, on the same day that the 7 teams who refused to race are up at a diciplinary hearing, they refund fans tickets. IMO i think it is ludacris that these teams may face diciplinary actions i.e. bans or docked points. The teams put the safety of their drivers as their number 1 priority and pulled them from the race, how can they diciplin them for that. What would F! have rather them do, put their drivers in the race and endup with someone being killed??
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