Four More Years Of Blair [Archive]

Proplus

06-05-2005, 10:40

Thought I'd see what peoples views were on the result...

Personally, I'm over the moon that people didn't {over} protest about the war, when there is so many other issues that we should be focusing on.

Any views??

Ed

Isn't that a very hypocritical view? If other issues should have been focused upon, why did we go to war in the first place?

dangel

06-05-2005, 10:52

...and all the time people keep dying in Iraq and Tony keeps on wearing that big fat grin..

Four more years of same **** different day then?

Dunc

06-05-2005, 11:00

All I can say is thank god its not the bloody tories..

edavies87

06-05-2005, 11:15

Isn't that a very hypocritical view? If other issues should have been focused upon, why did we go to war in the first place?

Not quite sure what you mean, all i was saying was that despite the war failing {and I am not arguing against that,} I was merely highlighting that an another party should not be voted in when imo Labour has performed well in the UK. Especially when it would have been on the basis of the War alone.

Ed

ps: Dont think anyone knows why we went to war! Except BUSH!

Dunc

06-05-2005, 11:19

I think a lot of people realised that Micheal Howard would have done exactly the same thing.. The increase in support for the Lib Dems has a lot to do with those whos major deciding issue was Iraq.

edavies87

06-05-2005, 11:21

I think a lot of people realised that Micheal Howard would have done exactly the same thing.. The increase in support for the Lib Dems has a lot to do with those whos major deciding issue was Iraq.

Yeah, I couldnt agree more. Do you feel Kennedy would have gone if he had of been in power??

Ed

Dunc

06-05-2005, 11:24

OK, now we are getting into dream land ;)

I honestly have no idea, but the cynic inside me says yes he probably would have

(I voted Lib Dem btw, but the war wasn't an enormous issue for me)

Jooster

06-05-2005, 11:30

I voted Lib Dem, as Dunc said, my main issue wasn't the war (however I didn't agree with it).

I'm pretty annoyed that Blair's got another 4 years in. Another 4 years of more stealth taxes, generally getting taxed up the jackzie, and paying over-the-odds for everything :mad:

Find me a party that'll lower VAT, and make buying/running a car, and buying a house cheaper and easier and it'll get my vote. [/pipedream] :p

Dunc

06-05-2005, 11:39

To be honest, if I thought there was a genuine chance of the Tories getting in this year, as much as it would have pained me, I would have voted Labour.

As it was, it was a local decision for me. Cheltenham has always been a (reasonably close) two horse race between the Tories and Lib Dem, so I voted based on that. The Lib Dems won here, so I'm happy.

ArTizan

06-05-2005, 11:40

I think it could be a lot worse - What i found funny was people who had ran for votes "Mr J Jooster, 45 votes" haha, what was the point, quite a few guys had around 30/40 votes, i could have probably got more than that. Would be interesting to know what they were offering. Free beer and lapdancing clubs galore or something, lol

Dunc

06-05-2005, 11:48

Blairs constituency was hilarious, there was about 15 people running, most of them joke parties..

Miss Cherri Blairout-Gilham - The pensioners party - 97 votes

brilliant :)

In Cheltenham, Mr 'Dancing Ken' hanks for the monster raving loony party got 525 votes! The guy is a legend, he's this mental cowboy bloke who, uh, dances a lot..

NickB

06-05-2005, 12:19

Aren't British political terms 5 years? American presidential terms are a fixed 4 years, whereas British parlimentary terms are upto 5 years, with the option for a general election at any point? Just a thought.
Nick

shifty.ricky

06-05-2005, 13:05

Not quite sure what you mean, all i was saying was that despite the war failing {and I am not arguing against that,} I was merely highlighting that an another party should not be voted in when imo Labour has performed well in the UK. Especially when it would have been on the basis of the War alone.

Ed

ps: Dont think anyone knows why we went to war! Except BUSH!

I have to disagree (well thats politics). I voted tory. My reasons were that I think Tony B is a smug git who is running this economy into the ground. Yes the economy has grown however its built on debt and unsustainable economies (i.e. the service sector). Manufacturing in this country is dead and without a successful manufacturing base its almost impossible to build a successful economy. You cant blame foriegn imports either, its government policy that has killed us. Toyota became the worlds most profitable manufacturer even when they were paying the high wages of Japan and were closer than us to China and all of the other low cost producers.

Tony B and company have also created a false economy in the civil service. There is nothing supoprting them in the real economy no wonder our national debt is huge and growing.

Then there is tuition fees, housing costs, transport policy, defence cuts, increase in taxation. Trust me there were plenty of reasons to vote against Tony B and the war was just one of them but not the only one.

No offence intended but your only 18 and still a student (hence probably at home and living with parents - fairly sheltered). After a couple of years in the real world paying taxes and working your ass off to have most of the money stolen by the tax man then you'l see there are many more than one reasons than the main one of the war to kick this government in the knackers.

Cable Monkey

06-05-2005, 13:31

No offence intended but your only 18 and still a student (hence probably at home and living with parents -

And I see you are only 22/3 so that means you do not remember a great deal about the Tories last spell in power. If you did you would know that the decline in our core industries was presided over by them, as was the under investment in our transport system, NHS and others. And while all that was happening, the economy was no great shakes.

shifty.ricky

06-05-2005, 14:11

Correct you are. I was just pointing out that first time voters dont consider all the arguments. I've known people (frist timers) to vote based on the parties colour.

dangel

06-05-2005, 14:27

DT1

06-05-2005, 14:37

And I see you are only 22/3 so that means you do not remember a great deal about the Tories last spell in power. If you did you would know that the decline in our core industries was presided over by them, as was the under investment in our transport system, NHS and others. And while all that was happening, the economy was no great shakes.

Uh, are you forgetting what a joke this country was in the 70's under Labour? The 80's weren't perfect but they were a damn site better than what had gone before.

How can anyone say that the war wasn't important enough to vote about? It proved what a lying, hypocritical, sanctomonious, self-serving SOB Tony Blair really is.

That's ignoring the increased burden on workers introduced over the last 8 years.

Furthermore I'm not impressed when someone who only got 1 in 5 of the voting population can tell me that everyone supports his policies. What a crock of...!!!!!

[M]uuhh

06-05-2005, 15:56

there will always be the war haging over his head weather right or wrong. but im glad peopel have voted for him as the war is not everything

dangel

06-05-2005, 16:13

uuhh']there will always be the war haging over his head weather right or wrong. but im glad peopel have voted for him as the war is not everything

yeah, cos he's got so much else right lately...

F A B Scott

06-05-2005, 16:45

... Do you feel Kennedy would have gone if he had of been in power?
EdHe would probably have finished the job the first time [Gulf W1]
Am I alone in being sick to effin' death of hearing, "nah nah no weaons of mass freakin' destruction"

Cable Monkey

06-05-2005, 16:49

...and you're obviously too young to remember three day weeks m8 ;)

No I'm not, and I do remember the driving force behind that was due to a war in the Middle East causing oil shortages, not politics! :)

DT1, I hope you would be willing to give up your job in order to satisfy the trend towards a nice cheap workforce Tory policies have always encouraged. We have full virtually employment right now. Don't underestimate just how valuable that is, because at present even if a company like Rover goes under with 5000 losses, many of them will get re-employed in some capacity. For me (living on Longbridges doorstep) that is worth a lot. Even if it means having a SOB at number 10. ;)

[M]uuhh

06-05-2005, 16:59

yeah, cos he's got so much else right lately...

If he hasen't got anything right like you say then why have people voted for him?

what was it the torys where saying... Lower Taxes = Better services..... - yeah right..

edavies87

06-05-2005, 18:17

"(hence probably at home and living with parents - fairly sheltered)"

I am quite upset to be stereotyped under this mould!

Despite it being correct! :p

Most first time voters i know were all political activists trying to change the world. Examples: "oh stop the war" "stop tuition fees" However I voted on the basis of the last 8 years, the economy is growing, we do have better public services especially where I live etc 3 buses an hour now to the local town when it used to be one. The local hospital hasn't been better than anyone i know can remember (3 new wards!)
I do accept i pay little taxes (ie none!) and this does not affect me but I am still intitled to my vote! I'm sure when i start earning, i will vote Tory!!

Also Thanks for all the replies!!!

Ed

edavies87

06-05-2005, 18:19

DT1

06-05-2005, 19:07

DT1, I hope you would be willing to give up your job in order to satisfy the trend towards a nice cheap workforce Tory policies have always encouraged.
What are you waffling about, I've worked hard to get where I am under both parties, why should I give up my job? Your point escapes me. :confused:

Am I alone in being sick to effin' death of hearing, "nah nah no weaons of mass freakin' destruction"
It isn't the war that's the problem, it's what he had to do to get the country to go to war.

DarkEntity

06-05-2005, 19:46

i dont have a single problem with the conflict in Iraq...yes we went we kicked ass, good, Saddam and his dictatorship had been in power too long and were a threat wether u like it or not. granted they didnt find Nukes but like most things intelligence isnt an exact science. Blair can only go on what he is told or advised. if he was advised wrong then so be it, in the end he/they lied, but pfft who hasnt lets face it.

Iraq went about testing chemical and bio weapons on the kurds a few years back but no one seems to remember this.

Now for all you idiots who want to protest, go over to Iraq, stand in the middle of Baghdad and do it, lets see how long u last with the o so, innocent Iraqi's..

yes there are civies and non, but thats war, live with it. all the soldiers who went signed up for the Army, Airforce etc and new what was expected. Anyone who joins any armed force and doesnt think they will go into combat at least once is deluding themselves.

F A B Scott

06-05-2005, 20:06

.... but I am still intitled to my vote! I'm sure when i start earning, i will vote Tory!!
Why? :eek: What has made you decide who to vote for next time already? :confused: [if next time is when you mean] Personally I would advise a wait-and-see approach. :cool: Also, in my dictionary, politician means liar . So whats all the fuss about? :D

edavies87

06-05-2005, 21:09

Why? :eek: What has made you decide who to vote for next time already? :confused: [if next time is when you mean] Personally I would advise a wait-and-see approach. :cool: Also, in my dictionary, politician means liar . So whats all the fuss about? :D

Basically i'm a selfish b*****d who will want to keep as much money as i can! However I will indeed see what they offer when the time comes!!

Ed

Cable Monkey

06-05-2005, 22:15

What are you waffling about, I've worked hard to get where I am under both parties, why should I give up my job? Your point escapes me. :confused:

You can continue to work under the present regime relatively unmolested. No problem with 3 million unemployed hanging over your head and rubbish wages because they "can always get someone in to replace you". What may be waffle to you was reality for an awful lot of people back then.

Stocky

07-05-2005, 00:24

I can't believe people can put their faith in these partys. :rolleyes:

I think that they are all selfish, and quite crap. I really don't believe that any of the partys in power will make all that much difference. I believe that you could live your life ignorant to politics and not notice the change in government.

Personally I thought it would have been interesting to give the old libbys a go, Labour again is boring. Blair is quite amusing though, especially on 2DTV! :D

DT1

07-05-2005, 13:40

You can continue to work under the present regime relatively unmolested. No problem with 3 million unemployed hanging over your head and rubbish wages because they "can always get someone in to replace you". What may be waffle to you was reality for an awful lot of people back then.

I was one of the 3 million for a time, I didn't blame them for it though, I just knuckled down and got another job. I don't expect to be spoon fed by the state.

Alan

07-05-2005, 14:30

Things didn't go entirely to rat sh*t after 18 years of Tory rule. Part of the run down of manufacturing industry was going to happen one way or another and a lot was down to E.U. regulation and policies. Usually when one party takes over from another in this country they inherit a total mess but Gordon Brown actually inherited a growing economy and improving conditions in 1997- the first time that had happened in a century. Once we had pulled out of the E.R.M. the economy started picking up and, although high, unemployment had started to fall before Labour came to power. For the frst 2 years, Brown maintained the previous Tory spending policies therefore Labour's only claim to getting unemployment down was not to interfere too much and let business get on with it.
The Tories got ditched because they were living proof that being in power too long breeds contempt and corruption. Labour are heading that way too only they will get there 6 years earlier. In Scotland, far too many seats are automatically Labour, regardless of the quality of the candidate, and complacency is rife. The same with Local Councils that remain one colour for generations.
I remember the last 12 general elections so ya boo hiss :p :p :p

TazUk

07-05-2005, 15:04

i dont have a single problem with the conflict in Iraq...yes we went we kicked ass, good, Saddam and his dictatorship had been in power too long and were a threat wether u like it or not

A threat to who and what? As much as the Iraqi people hated Saddam they were probably safer when he was in power than they are now. The US knew exactly what weapons he had as most were supplied by them when they were supporting his war against Iran.

Cable Monkey

07-05-2005, 18:23

I was one of the 3 million for a time, I didn't blame them for it though, I just knuckled down and got another job. I don't expect to be spoon fed by the state.

Very few people did expect to be spoonfed at the time. Problem was people were faced with difficulty getting a job and having to listen to the Lady Prime Minister suggesting they were lazy. If you lived in some parts of the country you could be the most motivated person in the world and it made little difference to your job prospects.

One thing that has been proven since is we were not a nation of lazy layabouts the spin (not a new phenomenon) suggested. The policies of the day did contribute to unemployment and there was a lot of smoke and mirrors to mask the question of blame for the issue. One important thing to note though. At the time the Labour Party were not fit to take power. They did not have sufficient people with the right tallents to run a Governement. Dare I say the Tories are in a similar position today. It may take another couple of terms for them to get their assets in place.

KyeC

07-05-2005, 18:40

There are issues with the country, but i think labor dealt with most of the issues well enough. No-one should expect a perfect goverment. People being upset for whatever reason should understand how the tories would of done things. Eventually, tories will get in power again, we will all have to live though that and then regret it, like before so long ago, and then labor will get in power again and then people will forget how it was under the tory govt and so on so on.

Many people voted Labor becuase they wanted Mr.Brown, and i think he will do a great job once that happens.

F A B Scott

08-05-2005, 01:47

Many people voted Labor becuase they wanted Mr.Brown, and i think he will do a great job once that happens.
And many people voted Labour because they didn't want Frankie [I mean Michael] Howard [well he is a bit of a comedian] as Prime Minister.

edavies87

08-05-2005, 12:35

I think Michael Howard was a MAJOR reason the tories failed to win, many of the older folk here should remember him as home secretary! in my politics course we learnt about how he let alot of prisoners go free?? can any1 remember this!

Ed

SnowmanUK

09-05-2005, 00:25

Bush and Blair in bed over oil I say. What about all the problems in African states etc? Lets go sort them out in the name of freedom..... ah wait, lets not bother as they dont have any oil.

Get ready for some NI increases :D

I certainly wouldnt like the Lib's in, they are almost as bad as Labour, if not worse.

And Alan was correct in saying Labour inherited a favourable economic position, Gordon Brown certainly was lucky. People seem to think he is amazing now, despite running the country into debt.

................Software Patents!

So many things bothering me :D

robdos

09-05-2005, 12:52

Uh, are you forgetting what a joke this country was in the 70's under Labour? The 80's weren't perfect but they were a damn site better than what had gone before.

I think there is too much emphasis placed on the past. There are too many factors to say something so general as "x are doing a better job than y", for example the global economy, what they inherited from the previous government, ****-ups like Rover etc. I think more should be stressed on how situations were handled.

Some of the comments I have heard from the late teens/early 20's have been absolutely laughable.

Oh yeah - one more thing, dont you think the leaders of the blues and the reds should **** off and stick to being estate agents? I maybe in the minority here but I actually liked the greyness of John Major - maybe just me but I wouldnt buy a used car off the other 2!!!

edavies87

09-05-2005, 18:10

"Some of the comments I have heard from the late teens/early 20's have been absolutely laughable! "

For example?

Ed

robdos

09-05-2005, 19:15

"Some of the comments I have heard from the late teens/early 20's have been absolutely laughable! "

For example?

Ed

For example "I'm voting Labour 'cause "better the devil you know" and "All the torys do is put the country in resession" and "But I dont have a poll card cause I dont want to pay council tax" (all the same guy)

edavies87

09-05-2005, 19:25

For example "I'm voting Labour 'cause "better the devil you know" and "All the torys do is put the country in resession" and "But I dont have a poll card cause I dont want to pay council tax" (all the same guy)

LOL so by "the late teens/early 20's" you ment one guy. Cheers for the stereotypical view!! :p

Ed

robdos

09-05-2005, 19:49

LOL so by "the late teens/early 20's" you ment one guy. Cheers for the stereotypical view!! :p

Ed

Wow slow down you asked for an example........

SnowmanUK

09-05-2005, 21:33

Adding another example from Uni;

"I'm voting Labour because I think Tony is a nice chap, he seems to do what has to be done with no messing about".

Made me laugh :D

THE BEAST

11-05-2005, 22:37

I have to agree with todays front page of the Independent and with its on going campaign to have the voting system over hauled.
Story here (http://www.independent.co.uk/)

I gave up voting after the Tories were ousted in 97 (Not because I was a Tory boy) but because I had started to loose faith in all parties and their ON the day policies to get you to vote for them and then the fact that once in 7 times out of 10 these either failed or were brushed under the carpet quietly.

This election I did vote and to be honest I put my tick on Tory, not because I wanted them in but as a protest vote and for the fact that I am fed up with watching this country being run by a liar thats supported by a party that cannot back up its Wonderfull 10 year plans time and time again.

Nice to see the blind man back in the cabinet eh

F A B Scott

12-05-2005, 02:55

THE BEAST

12-05-2005, 08:00

I find it hard to beleive anyone when they say they voted Tory as a protest vote.It seems to me it's not a protest vote, it's a preference vote by someone who doesn't want to admit it. [though that is understandable.]

To be honest I dont like Lib and I dont like Labour, in fact I dont like Tory either but in my area there was a chance to get a slimy Labour leader out and reading up the closest one capable of doing that was a Tory. Hence my vote and he did indeed win.
I also wonder how many others voted "Other" as a protest vote because looking at the election results Labour only just got in and technically should not be the main government in power right now. :(

F A B Scott

12-05-2005, 17:43

To be honest I dont like Lib and I dont like Labour, in fact I dont like Tory either but in my area there was a chance to get a slimy Labour leader out.... :( Yeah in exchange for a slimy Tory one.. let's face it they are all [or most] pretty slimy in both parties. [OK, All parties] :)
It's just that some are slimier than others. :eek:

THE BEAST

12-05-2005, 17:55

Yeah in exchange for a slimy Tory one.. let's face it they are all [or most] pretty slimy in both parties. [OK, All parties] :)
It's just that some are slimier than others. :eek:

Thats very true and if the houses of commons went up in smoke tomorrow with them all in then I for one would be cheering.

Perhaps one day we will have people in power who understand those that voted them in and did not distance themselfs from the the public.

Alan

16-05-2005, 23:08

There is something a bit odd in that England voted Tory yet got Labour but there are several things I'd like to put, particularly, to the English members.

First, the "West Lothian" question. This is where Scottish MPs vote on purely English matters which provokes some resentment. This was a stunt pulled particularly by Labour since, without its solid wedge of Scottish MPs, it couldn't win a three legged race against a one legged baboon. Nothing dire has ever come of this anyway but why do you fuss? English MPs have been voting on scottish matters for centuries!!

Second: I heard a lot of complaints about the lack of an English voice and an English government when all other parts of the country have some form of it.
But wait!.. When Blair and company were talking about what they were going to do and the new things they would come up with if returned to power - guess what - it only applied to England! When all these talking heads were on the box talking about this, that, and other matters, including cabinet ministers, guess what? they were only talking about England! The Education Secretary, the Secretary for Health, the Sports Minister, the Transport Minister, etc. etc. - yep, you guessed it, England only!
If you are English, don't worry, you already have your own parliament - it's called Westminster!!

F A B Scott

17-05-2005, 01:45

English MPs have been voting on scottish matters for centuries!!But not so much now which is the point.
the Jocks have a huge say in what goes on in Scotland.[eg, student fees-etc etc etc]...When Blair and company.....which includes Scot Gordon Brown whom many expect to take over from Blair in the near future,and hence a Scot will be running England...he already runs the economy.[and very well, some might say]
I guess you'll be complaining we are stealin' your best politicians next... :D
...were talking about what they were going to do and the new things they would come up with if returned to power - guess what - it only applied to England!Exactly, the others can no longer be told how to run much of their own affairs....If you are English, don't worry, you already have your own parliament - it's called Westminster!!...
Only problem with that arguement is there are still plenty Scottish MP's in our Westminster telling us Englanders what we can and can't do. You can't have it both ways. ;)
I dunno but I wouldn't mind betting there aren't many Englishmen in the Scottish parliament. :)

This is another point of view......and not necessarily mine entirely. :cool:

Alan

17-05-2005, 18:22

Scottish MPs aren't telling Englanders what to do, Tony Blair is, and uses the Whips to make sure they support him. That line just will not fly. And if Brown succeeds Blair, he won't be running England, he will be running Britain - and anyway, do you actually think Brown would pass laws to give power to Scotland and less to England?

Douglas Home was the last Scottish prime minister and he didn't.

I wasn't complaining about the English, I was trying to show that you already have a government so don't worry about it. :p

F A B Scott

17-05-2005, 19:28

So, what you are saying is that this is a dictatorship, Blairs the pres' and while he's pres he only cares about England but when Gordon takes over it will once again become a democracy. Alan, I would never have guessed that you were Scottish if I hadn't seen your location.[huh!? :rolleyes:]
The political scene in the UK leaves a lot to be desired ; but things could, and have been worse [remember Thatcher]. :eek:
Oh yeah, the Scottish MP's who helped President Blair win the election were voted in by Scottish voters....if you disagree with that it's a whole different discussion. :)

Alan

18-05-2005, 20:35

I don't know where that came from, apart from being an extravagent re-writing of what I said in my posts. All I've said is that because Westminster deals with so much that is purely English, then English people who are concerned about losing out in the devolution stakes shouldn't really feel like that. It's not a jibe, it's not a moan, it's not a complaint.

As for how you can get that Blair/Brown assertion from what I wrote!... it is so unreal that I question whether your school ever instilled any English comprehension in you at all. :p

F A B Scott

18-05-2005, 21:46

All I can go by is what you have said, and what it sounds like you mean.
It seems, by what you write, that you resent Scotland being "told" what to do by an English [which is actually British] parliament. Pardon me if I'm wrong but this "sounds" like the old "chip on the shoulder" attitude. ;)

ps. My english comprehension is ok thanks......my education was pretty thorough.
In the interests of keeping things freindly, I apologise if anything I said upset you or anyone, I am just putting another viewpoint. :)

Alan

18-05-2005, 23:29

Fair dos but I think you are the one who is putting his opinion into other peoples' words!
It seems, by what you write, that you resent Scotland being "told" what to do by an an English [which is actually British] parliament. Pardon me if I'm wrong but this "sounds" like the old "chip on the shoulder" attitude.

My comments were about Westminster politicians mainly passing laws and making promises for England. How can you get "resent Scotland being "told" what to do..." from that? What in my posts justifies that position at all :confused:
When I said "English MPs have been voting on Scottish matters for centuries" all I meant is that it's no big deal for us so why should the reverse be a big deal for you!

All I intended to do was poke a bit of fun at English people who think that they are disenfranchised. Good Lord, with 90% of the population and 90% of the representation how on earth can any English person say they don't have what the Welsh and Scots have, when they have had it for centuries in Westminster!
As for the "chip on the shoulder" - pah! We get annoyed by southern football commentators reporting to Britain as a whole but referring only to England as if the other 3 don't matter - in circumstances where they do.
But then, it's big neighbour small neighbour syndrome - Canada/USA, Australia/New Zealand it's perfectly common. The big country often annoys/insults the small country when it acts or speaks in a way that entirely discounts the other. It may be, in practice, true, but doesn't help nevertheless.
If you recall, Cherie Blair on a tour Down Under recently said at a meeting in Auckland "it's great to be in Australia" Oops!