Learning Guitar, Help?. [Archive]

jon bda

21-11-2004, 16:23

Hey all, looking for a bit of advice. My 11 year old lad wants a guitar for xmas, and tbh, i wouldn't mind learning how to strum a choon myself :D. A girl that lives across the road from me has one of the 'Encore' electric guitar and amp packages that Index/Argos carry, that she bought on a fad and has never used. I'm thinking if i can get that for a reasonable price i probably will (currently £139.99p at Index, so idealy sub £100), but i'm also thinking it may be a bit big and heavy for my nipper to use at first?. Would it be a good idea to maybe get a 3/4 sized acoustic as well, so he can gain some experience and then let him move up?.
http://forums.hexus.net/images/smilies/rockon.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist adding that smiley at the end.
:D

TazUk

22-11-2004, 00:06

Would it be a good idea to maybe get a 3/4 sized acoustic as well, so he can gain some experience and then let him move up?.

Might be worth just getting the acoustic to start with and then seeing how serious he is about it ;)

PuppetMaster

22-11-2004, 17:56

nah i started with an encore strat copy, and iv been play for for four years now! Dont bother with acoustic til he's comfortable with the elelctric. (some might say its the other way round, not me)

Also it sounds like you've got a good deal out of that girl, go for it! :D

jon bda

22-11-2004, 18:13

PűÞpęŦmåśť3ř, i know what you mean mate...one person tells me if you want to play electric, start with an electric. Someone else says to get an acoustic first, then move to an electric...mad!!!, its like asking whos best out of AMD and Intel...
:D

Taz, thought about that mate but like i say i fancy learning myself. If i get this one now while i've been offered it and got the chance then i'm more likely to actually have a bash (rather than see it as totally wasted cash!). I've been wanting to learn for about the last 15 years but never got around to it, thinking "i'll buy one, one day soon". Guts me to think how far i could of come by now if i had started then...
:o

Monkey Rob

23-11-2004, 16:57

I started years ago on a classical guitar I rescued out of the school store room.

OK I nicked it but it was neglected and half broken

I recommend getting whatever guitar your son would think was really cool.
It's as simple as that. I can't stand playing my first electric guitar now but at the time it was the bee's knees and I learned a lot. You will never progress in whatever musical instrument unless you are excited by it.

If your son really takes to the guitar then he'll look in to upgrading later.

Definitely consider a second hand guitar, but for an easier life, go to a music shop. There are very often deals to be done at Christmas time with guitar/amp combos and they'll throw in straps and leads etc.

The Encores have never been great in my opinion although they're OK for beginners. Argos tend to just send them straight out and they never get looked at so they won't hold their tuning and your son will have to set his action and intonation before he can start irritating you properly. If you buy from a shop then normally someone will have given it a once over and set it up a bit.

I'm out of the loop in terms of what's good in budget guitars lately but I used to love the Yamaha Pacifica a few years ago.

People in shops are generally nice enough and you can tell when they're trying to foist some rubbish on an inexperienced dad at Christmas.

Good luck though.
(Oh and get some headphones for the little tyke)

Monkey Rob

23-11-2004, 17:00

Oooh just read your post properly now.

Yeah the second hand one from the girl next door would most probably be perfect. I recommend getting someone who plays to set it up and tune it properly because it will make all the difference (This is assuming the girl across the road has left it to be kicked around and never really loved it).

TazUk

23-11-2004, 17:12

Taz, thought about that mate but like i say i fancy learning myself.

In which case go with both as you originally suggested ;)

Acoustics you can pick up and play without having to faff around with amps, cables, etc. With electrics you can use effects to enhance your playing. In other words one isn't inherently better than the other it's just an acoustic would be better to learn on IMHO.

PuppetMaster

23-11-2004, 17:58

..also if you have both, he can make a choice - if he prefers one over the other, you can sell it or keep it for yourself!

ps: Taz, what does IMHO mean? *n00b*

jon bda

23-11-2004, 18:25

ps: Taz, what does IMHO mean? *n00b*

In My Honest Opinion
;)

jon bda

23-11-2004, 18:29

Yeah the second hand one from the girl next door would most probably be perfect. I recommend getting someone who plays to set it up and tune it properly because it will make all the difference (This is assuming the girl across the road has left it to be kicked around and never really loved it).

The girl across the road has hardly ever got it out of the bag to be kicked about!. Apart from some fingerprints i think you would have trouble telling this from a new one. It has been fettled by someone who plays, but a friend of my bro in law also plays guitar (quite well from what i hear as well) so getting it tuned etc shouldn't be a problem. Yup, stuff it...i think i'll buy one of each...now i'm going to go 'play' the mop, to the Paradise City riff...got to practice ain't i...
:D

PuppetMaster

23-11-2004, 18:35

lol yeh if you want to be playin paradise city, you're guna need practise (for the solos at least :D)

six5tring

24-11-2004, 10:09

for what it's worth.. here's my penny.

people say to learn on acoustics because the action (distance btween strings and fret board) is higher and so harder to play! which builds up your finger strength. however most people think that electrics r far cooooler.. so probably will continue playing. i started years ago on a spanish 2/3's guitar.. then went to acoustic.. then electric. i'd go for the electric myself... cuz well u can get it off ur neighbour so it's not like u've just brought a brand new guitar if it neva gets played. and it'll be far easier for your mad soloing and power stances :D

Monkey Rob

24-11-2004, 12:30

Exactly.

Besides training weak fingers on heavy guage strings on high actions sometimes only gives you pain and reinforces a poor technique.

Technique will come later, for now Let's Rock.

ParrotBoy

24-11-2004, 15:45

Make sure to buy a tuner that you can plug into your guitar (electric), after a while you will be able to tune yourself, but to begin with you will need this to train your ears to what the strings "should" sound like.

PuppetMaster

25-11-2004, 13:04

yeh, tuners are essential when you first start - i know a person who is always out of tune, which is incredibly annoying, but he doesnt care.

Get a QwikTune - cheap and effective

ParrotBoy

25-11-2004, 13:52

An alternative, if you have the initial cash, is to get a (cheap) multi-effects pedal, I have a Zoom 505, but the 504(i think) without the actual foot-pedal will let you choose from many different sounds and also has a tuner built in. I like these units as they really do help you build up your own style, by finding the sounds you like without having to fiddle to many knobs on your amp. Only an idea though, some people like to start with the very basic equipment, less to worry about that way. Its all to do with your approach.

PuppetMaster

25-11-2004, 21:56

good point thers plenty of cheapy pedals around,

but i reckon he should see if he enjoys it first, then if he does, go further then get a pedal

Sticky

26-11-2004, 17:48

Get Santa to drop off a Guitarport from the mighty Line 6, with the axe. Had mine for some time now, and couldn't do without it. It is a great piece of kit that keeps evolving. I think there's also been a price drop recently.

http://www.guitarport.com/

It connects via USB to yer PC, with the guitar signal plugging straight into the unit. There all sorts of tones available, and it goes waaaaay beyond a standalone effects unit. There's online lessons, tracks, and tones for download with "Guitarport Online". All great stuff, seriously.

http://www.line6.com/rifftracker/

Recent software updates include the Line 6 Model Packs, and the new Riffworks software. Starting with great tutorials, essentially the unit's capability grows as you progress.

Oh, and although you can feed it out to an amp or hi-fi, there's a headphone socket on the back ;)

conan

26-11-2004, 18:33

I'm in the same boat here, my 9 year old is learning to play and he wants a guitar for xmas. At the moment he's got one on loan from school so he's practising his chords on that. What I could use some help with is finding a web site that will play the tuning chords? Does anybody know one? I found one a couple of weeks ago but lost the addy:(

PuppetMaster

26-11-2004, 20:31

you mean something that will play how the notes used to tune the guitar?

i might have something you can use

TazUk

27-11-2004, 00:17

What I could use some help with is finding a web site that will play the tuning chords?

So you just want help tuning the guitar?

conan

27-11-2004, 07:20

you mean something that will play how the notes used to tune the guitar?

i might have something you can use

Yeah thats it. My ear is OK and I can tune if I have the notes/chords to match to. I found a website that would play them but can't find it again now (that will teach me to use "add to favourites").

TazUk

27-11-2004, 10:17

Really you only need to tune the top string as you can derive the tuning of the others from that. I take it you don't have a piano/keyboard with which to do that?

PuppetMaster

28-11-2004, 09:39

Yeah if you've got a piano and know the right notes to tune to, it's not too hard

If you don't, i've got a music track of the standard EADGBE tuning, if it helps

PM me if you need to

six5tring

28-11-2004, 20:41

ah the wonderful world of effects!... kinda a love em hate em thing. used to use a zoom 505 meself.. have some majorly lush chorus sounds.. though they buzz quite a lot. Then went up to a Yamaha DG stomp.. lovely board.. still got both somewhere. However.. i had a short time of not playing with effects.. and now well can get all the sounds i want just with me lovely strat.. and nice finder amp and the *very very very* occasional use or a touch of chorus/delay.. neva looked back on the day i stopped heavily using effects.. meant all my mistakes were uncovered and got betta! do most recording on acoustic now.. just cuz rythme guitar on my acoustic is so rich!

anywayz waffle over.. six

baker

29-11-2004, 13:56

Ive played for nearly 3 years now. I had always wanted to learn but never had the guts to split with £100-200 on something i might give up on. I bought a Yamaha Pacifica it was CREME in colour and bought it from a girl who had never used it through the paper. Of course i felt my masculinity was in question when buying it, but i decided since it will stay in my room ill get over it. I bought it, and i now also have an Ibanez s470, of which i prefer the pacifica in some respects. Anyhow, i would say its not about loving the appearance of the instrument itself, cos i hated mine, the only thing that kept me going (cos the first 6 months of learning is a &$^&$ ) was the desire to learn something ive wanted all my life.

So i would say, but the encore, seen as its cheap then go frm there. As for FX pedal i personally hates the zoom, as you had to go through loads of dials n stuff and i could never get the sound i wanted, so i bought a Boss Me-50 whchonly uses knobs so you just dial in your sound pretty much , obviously this is a purchase for later on tho....

All the best,

Dave

Also, buy some Total guitar issues, try and get hold of beginner issues + plenty of exercises for your fingers, imo no exercises=poor playing.

Brillopad

29-11-2004, 14:32

try this download i just tried after loosing my usual free tuner online. and works a treat if you a have some sort of input from an eletric guitar or use a microphone like i did

ParrotBoy

29-11-2004, 16:18

Can you plug the Guitarport into an amp? Say I'm jamming with mates, want to use the effects but still play it all through the amp? I can't see a jack for it, only a headphone socket....

Sticky

30-11-2004, 01:20

Can you plug the Guitarport into an amp? ....

There is a stereo line level output on the rear that can be taken straight to a hi-fi amp for a good quality sound (careful with volume levels though - you certainly don't want to drive them like a guitar amp would), or just use the PC's existing audio setup:

http://www.musik-shoppen.dk/upload/varebillede6274.jpg

You can feed those phono's to a 0.25" jack to yer amp on a clean setting and let the software do the work (and it does sound damn good to be fair ;) ), but the Line 6 POD range is probably better suited if required solely for effects use.

That said, there is a fair degree of crossover with the POD gear, with the recent updates to the Guitarport software. For home use, the Guitarport is stunning. Here's a link to see a quick clip of Joe Satriani jamming on a Guitarport:

http://www.g4techtv.com/freshgear/features/42185/Review_GuitarPort.html

The new POD XT Live looks to offer quite a degree of flexibility too, but I have yet to demo it within earshot of Santa :). It contains a lot of the Guitarport add-on model packs out the box, and has the advantage of patch changing by foot, as standard.

To get back on topic, as I said in my post above, outwith just the effects features, it is a great product for learning. Though I mainly play acoustic guitar, the Guitarport encourages me to be creative with techniques and tones. Helps keep it fun and fresh.

ParrotBoy

30-11-2004, 15:45

Right, in that case my best bet might be to get a better footpedal than the 505 and get a soundblaster existy for recording to my laptop. Another good point for this is that the existy has midi-input so I can feed a midi-keyboard into Reason :D

But anyway, this was supposed to be about starting kit (kinda stole the thread there), so what do we reckon, buy an amp and tuner but leave pedals for later, or get a GuitarPort and run it through a stereo?

Having not used the GuitarPort I can't really give a good comparison, but it seems to me that would be an ideal way to start, and it would probably be easier to sell on if you end up wanting to sell your kit (boo hiss!)

PuppetMaster

30-11-2004, 18:51

The Yamaha MagicStomp (http://www.magicstomp.com/) is amazing - my friend has one, and you download sounds and stick them in the pedals memory. He keeps taking the pi$$ out o me cos i've only got a Black Paisley, but i didnt feel the need for one..

..that said its still and amazing pedal, and for around £150 you cant go wrong :)

Moldiver

01-12-2004, 00:50

Heres my 2 Axes
http://www.bcrich.com/images/hi_res/Platinum_Pro_Warlock_Black.jpg

http://www.ibanez.co.jp/world/products/eg/pict_big/RG7321BK.jpg My 7 string Ibanez:)

Now when i got my starter pack i got the peavey starter pack, guitar was pish but the amp is one iof the best practice amps ive played, id suggest buying a modretly cheap guitar, vintage or something along those lines and
peavey bandit amp the small practise one thats a good starter package,so if he wants to get more into it youve got a really good amp to start off with so ur saving money there cause u dont need to buy a new amp. Most practise amps that come with starter packs hate distortion pedals as soon are ur son learns palm muting the amp with just start making bad noises like theres too much bass(they cant hande any kind). Thers small zoom multi efects pedal out that has a wee drum machine built into it thats a good pack for ur kid to play along to something.

ParrotBoy

01-12-2004, 08:49

That Ibanez is NICE!

Moldiver

04-12-2004, 14:02

To right it is:)

six5tring

09-12-2004, 09:38

alwayz found them a little too easy to play. my fingers went faster than i could think what to do with them. sounded great but felt very outta control :D - six

TheFallenAngel

09-12-2004, 19:42

i dont like black guitars at all

Fat Jez

19-12-2004, 11:25

I just got myself a Yamaha F36sa acoustic guitar as an early Christmas present from my parents. Never played guitar before, although I played violin for long enough at school (and still do occasionally now). Learning to play is killing my fingers (especially some of the barred chords) but I'm working on the assumption that if I decide to move to electric at some point, then it will be easier.

Anyone got any good websites/tips on learning to play? So far I've been looking at
http://guitar.about.com/
http://www.guitarnoise.com/
http://www.cyberfret.com/

Cheers,
Stephen

baker

19-12-2004, 13:40

when i used to read them websites alongside my lessons my teacher (who is pro) used to tell me the majority of it is ****e. Not the most constructive comment i know, but magazines like total guitar/guitar technique seem better to give you a more realistic technique. At least with TG you get hte cd with videos on it of which youl see hte fretting hand style n stuff and you can pick it up from there, but id suggest getting a few lessons.

PuppetMaster

19-12-2004, 14:02

TG is great, I've been a subscriber for a few years now, tis very useful.

@ Fat Jez, your fingers will get used to it - and you'll get a cool hard skin area on the end of ur fingers ;) :p

Fat Jez

19-12-2004, 14:16

your fingers will get used to it - and you'll get a cool hard skin area on the end of ur fingers ;) :p
Oh, I know that only too well :). I play violin too and have done since I was about 10 or 11 (although very infrequently now). When I was at school, we used to go away for residential courses and would practice 5 or 6 hours a day. Even then though, my skin on my fingertips would blister, despite normally practicing for half an hour a night.

I'm finding that the biggest difference between guitar and violin is that you need much more strength in your fingers to hold the strings down on the guitar. I also find it very easy to get buzzing from the frets if my fingers are not in exactly the right place.

I'll need to look out for Total Guitar. Do they tend to focus mainly on electric guitar or do they cover much on acoustic too?

Cheers,
Stephen

baker

19-12-2004, 15:53

Its broad really, when you say electric you probably think of rock distortion and all that jazz. When you think of accoustic you probably think finger picking and chords. But really the same principles apply to accoustic/electric, TG tend to focus on electric but usually have the occasional accoustic song tabbed etc but its irrelevant really as you can play both but obviously electric has the advantage of being able to do 'propper' stuff like arpeggios,sweep picking which is harder to paly on accoustics cos they dont have the action and are generally much bigger in body etc.

Its generally just a useful magazine. The key is to get your technique right for picking, bends, vibrato, etc which mostly comes through experience. I have found that TG dont tend to tell you lots of ways to do vibrato, good bends and what not so luckily my tutor shows me but experience is the best teacher of all!

Fat Jez

19-12-2004, 15:58

The key is to get your technique right for picking, bends, vibrato,
Thanks for that. Vibrato shouldn't be a problem for an ex-violinist, since I had to do it there all the time. I'm also glad that the music theory I hated learning before should stand me in good stead now, in terms of understanding how chords are made up, scales, etc.

Cheers,
Stephen

TazUk

21-12-2004, 20:36

My 7 string Ibanez

I've been done, my Ibanez only has 6 strings :D

ViperVenoM

22-12-2004, 14:35

gonna have to follow this thread

getting (got but im gonna be a good little boy and not play with it yet :p )

a nice new Yamaha Pacifica 112 and a Marshall amp package off net

cannne wait to start annoying the neighbours :D

Fat Jez

22-12-2004, 16:18

I've been done, my Ibanez only has 6 strings :D
I have enough trouble barring 6 strings with 1 finger, never mind 7 :(

Cheers,
Stephen

PuppetMaster

22-12-2004, 16:20

Barring isn't too hard once you've got the hang of it - you just need to build up strength in which ever hand you use.

And I don't think you'd barre the bottom (7th) string on a & string would you? I mean not with the 3 others next to it. (I wouldn't know)

Fat Jez

22-12-2004, 17:02

PuppetMaster,

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek :D I'm too tired to work out whether or not you could form a chord barring the lower strings.

Cheers,
Stephen

PuppetMaster

22-12-2004, 18:31

Well you're not very good at sarcasm then :D

Hint: :rolleyes: use of this

jon bda

26-12-2004, 18:49

Well, #1 son got his guitar and has been strumming away, his uncle (who started playing last xmas) has been down today and shown him a couple of things. Then #1 son showed me how to play the opening chords for smoke on the water, which i've been happily strumming all night. It may sound daft, but after making a recognisable sound on his, i really wanna get my own guitar and learn some more...
http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/rockon.gif :D

ViperVenoM

26-12-2004, 18:53

thats exactly what im trying to play now!

this is day 2 of guitar and im...well..not making much progress :( ive moved to the opening of One by metallica its rather slow and fairly easy i really want to find a decent smoke on the water tab online but everyone i find is different im not having much luck (im a lefty so i got a left handed guitar) and my right hand is ..fairly weak/rubbish tbh :(