View Full Version : schumacher...bo hoo
hahahaha bought time he lost a race, WTF was he up too, mutant
wish Button had won thou, but nice one to Trulley :)
Role on when they start taking alot of the driver aids out of the sport, and make it alot more competitve
things like taking out pit stops would be a good idea.... if they are in front then theyre winning, if not, they aint...F1 is just too boring to watch really.
yeah give me Touring cars any day, F1 just has the glamore at the moment........hopefully in the next few years it will become alot better........hopefully
F1 is just too boring to watch really.YEY someone that agrees with me! F1 is the most boring motosport i have ever seen to be honest. watching cars go around the same track over and over and once in a blue moon you see a really good crash.
uuhh']watching cars go around the same track over and over and once in a blue moon you see a really good crash.
eh, wtf are you on about? Good crashes, if you really like motorsport then thats the last thing you want to see.
All cars go around the same track over and over during a race, even WRC, they repeat a lot of stages nowadays.
and that is why i prefer watching the bike racing... one set of tyres, one tank of fuel and the rest rider skill. if you are in front at the end you win, and the battles to get to the front are spectacular. none of this 'tactical' pit stops, or new tyre balls... if they cant last the race on one set of tyres or tank of fuel then the race is too long.
I agree with what you're saying about F1 being too tactical and a bit boring. You cant deny some of the drivers do have large amounts of skill which can make watching it in small amounts pretty interesting. Well.... it kept me off studying for a wee while.
Also, why do people not like Schumacher, it aint his fault he's better than the others (and has a good car etc etc.)
the reason i dont like shcumacher, is because he is making the sport even more boring, cos he always wins.....it may be different if he was a brit then hed be the best thing since sliced bread to me. Especially as there is no one to really challege him and even if there was its not like touring cars or superbikes when there ducking and diving for positions all over the place.
I was watching the race when senna died and the qualifiying when the other guy died the day befor....(cant belive i cant remember his name) but i was very upset by sennas death, twas a sad weekend for the sport.
[GPO]Solitaire
23-05-2004, 20:03
in the past 10 years there have only been a few fatal chashes, but many "Spectaculer" non-fatal crashes. No one wants to see people die but there is a "rubber neck" apeal of seeing the cars break apart, as they are designed to do to protect the driver, when they hit something solid at high speed.
BTW schumacher has only himself to blame for his crash, in today's race. why did he break sharply in the tunnel? ther was nothing visable in there to make him break.
[GPO]Solitaire
23-05-2004, 20:22
Well hopefully the new proposed rule changes regarding engines should help liven things up, currently they can have a diffrent engine every race so they can run them at well over the red-line, but he new rules may force teams to use the SAME engine for 3 or more races otherwise they are hit by a race penelty. Also they ate thinking of limiting what type of materials they can use in the cars to try and give the teams an even footing. I'd prefer them to limit the number of pit stops to one during a race. and to oner set of tyres, the same set they qualify on.
Whoa D00D!Uncalled 4!
No need to say things like that!All [M]uuhh was saying was the only exciting thing that happens in F1 is the crashes, and fair play it is.....
And as for sayin that bout forthy, twas nothing but a joke!Lighten up!
MjG
Ok I have cleared up this thread , please be respectful to each other and certain drivers who have died.
Please keep this on topic from now on or it will have to be removed for good.
On topic:
Only managed to see the highlights and was very annoyed as I've watched all the races up til now and missed the best one ! grrr.
Button drove very well indeed and I believe he may have had a chance at the end to pass trulli if it hadnt been for a backmarker.
The MS crash was Schumi's fault brake testing some1 in the tunnel with all the drivers wearing a tinted visor is plainly asking for trouble. Montoya did all he could to avoid the crash but he couldnt.
DC had a point about both sato's jump start and the blow up luckily no one was injured but on a course with no run offs BAR were seriously inncorrect to keep sato's car running when a blow up was enevitable. Fischi was very lucky not to be badly injured and driver safety should be put before any of the teams tactics.
:)
Never mind driver safety, it's a miracle some of the marshalls weren't killed, the way they were standing in the middle of the track waving flags. All it would have taken would be for one of the drivers to lock his brakes and the marshall would have been wiped out, particularly as they were doing it on the hairpin just after the second Jag had buried its nose in the barrier there.
Cheers,
Stephen
You're right, I don't think I have ever seen such suicidal marshalls in my life!
I thought one of them was actually going to jump out in front of a car, waving his flag. Idiots!
danielctull
24-05-2004, 14:55
I've just finished watching it and can say that this was THE best race I have seen in some time, maybe up to 2 years or so. Trulli totally deserved the win, but Button was unlucky; had he not caught the backmarker after the first pitstop, he probably woulda won.
The Schumacher incident was completely down to Schumacher, this is proven because Ross Braun (I think it was him) didn't say afterwards that it was Montoya's fault. If you follow Braun's interviews after such events he nearly always pins it on the other guy. The fact he said "its up to the the (what are they called?) Judges (??)" proves it was Schumacher's fault!
I couldn't believe what Coulthard was saying both during and after the race about Sato. It would have been called into question if it were a jump-start, I guess we'll never know if it was or not, as they wont investigate it because he didn't finish the race. He was literally standing there causing friction...
As for the marshalls this race we first saw it at the hairpin where one was in the middle of the road, another one going over to get him out of there. :rolleyes: You just have to question where they get them from... The red flag after Sato's blow was misleading and no doubt aided the crash to happen as Coulthard was thinking the race had stopped.
Was a good point to make about Little Schumacher, Ralf that he has been the cause of many accidents in the past and most of them being his fault due to lack of care and attention to what's happening. I feel he will not get anywhere in the world of F1 if he continues this trend. If he just became more aware, he'd be in the top 6 a lot more of the time... If not, I feel he may have to be seriously looked into for the amount of crashes he has caused. We don't want a death as a result of his poor judgement... :(
All in all, this was always going to be the race that would deliver a spectacular watch. It's also gunna bring F1 into the headlines again, rather than a plain "he's won again" from the newscaster...
Never mind driver safety, it's a miracle some of the marshalls weren't killed, the way they were standing in the middle of the track waving
Dont be silly!
They had protective flags! and boy were they trained to use them...
Either that or balls the size of footballs :)
slartiBardfarst
24-05-2004, 16:21
but Button was unlucky; had he not caught the backmarker after the first pitstop, he probably woulda won.
i don't think so. he was held up around 2-3 seconds with the back marker but he was a good 7-8 seconds behind trulli. he would have just caught him up quicker and sat behind him till the finish. it would have been exciting to watch him give trulli a real push though.
i kind of half wanted schumacher to win. i don't really understand why so many people don't like him. if you just hate him because he wins all the time then your really not looking closely enough. he DESERVES to win because he is the best driver. it's everybody else you should be blaming for it not being exciting enough as they just can not compete with him.
the marshals are always nuts at monaco. i really don't think they are trained as last year they were waving blue flags at practically every car with another car behind it, whether it was being lapped or not.
Cable Monkey
24-05-2004, 17:32
People don't like Schumacher because he has the arrogance that comes with being head and shoulders above the next best driver/car package in F1. When he puts another driver down for being dangerous or incompetent, he does so in the near unassailable position of a man who knows he brings more to F1 than any other driver and thus can dictate certain things. They say no one individual is bigger than the whole, but with him you really do have to wonder. I suspect that is reflected in the price of a couple of square inches of advertising space on his coveralls. When he crashed at Silverstone, no one cried or lamented. Some were glad he was caught out. However, if he died at the next race, we would be pushed not to recognise him for what he has bought to the sport.
I still hate him though... :D
slartiBardfarst
24-05-2004, 17:47
i don't think he's arrogant at all. for arrogance you just have to look to jacque villeneuve, there is an arrogant man, not michael.
he has his moments or smugness, just like any other driver does but he's always congratulating the other drivers and talks a lot of sence whenever i've seen him on camera.
there are drivers i don't like (montoya, coulthard, kimi) but micheal is a decent bloke in my eyes.
danielctull
24-05-2004, 17:58
In honesty, I hate Ferrari. Michael's always seemed a top guy, and although I'd prefer different drivers to win, he does seem to have both luck on his side and an awful lot of skill to make up for the lucky times. Barrichello is more than a sound guy and deserves better than Ferrari's second car (possibly the worst seat on the grid bar the Minardi's) as he's never really going to go anywhere with Ferrari (like Irvine before him).
It's Ross Braun that has always annoyed the crap out of me, his tactics, his sly comments, his running to mummy (the chiefs) when someone does something wrong, but not liking people to do it to him, and his general attitude in front of the camera.
Kimi and Coulthard annoy me so much, and to a certain extent so does Button, or more people's reaction to Button annoy me rather than the man himself. I have heard, however, from friends that he is quite rude.
to be honest i'm glad that it is now possible to like or dislike drivers. go back 10 years and most of the drivers had all the personality of brick.
Cable Monkey
24-05-2004, 22:55
i don't think he's arrogant at all. for arrogance you just have to look to jacque villeneuve, there is an arrogant man, not michael.
he has his moments or smugness, just like any other driver does but he's always congratulating the other drivers and talks a lot of sence whenever i've seen him on camera.
there are drivers i don't like (montoya, coulthard, kimi) but micheal is a decent bloke in my eyes.
Look at anyone at the pinnacle of their chosen vocation, and arrogance (read extreme self confidence) is central to their persona. Congratulating other drivers is like assuming a dominant or paternal role, reinforcing his supremacy. Villneuve was a different kettle of fish. He discovered that winning the Indy series didn't come close to making him a consistently good driver in F1. He also had the unenviable job of nursing BAR through their early years. Going from hero to zero must hit hard in an ego fuelling proffesion like F1.
slartiBardfarst
25-05-2004, 01:00
i agree, but i still think that most people (certainly i) would react in the same way if i were the best driver in the world.
there is no denying that he is THE best driver and that comes with a certain hatred no matter how he behaves. people will always dislike him for no other reason than he is better.
villeneuve assumed he was the best driver stuck with a poor team. that has shown not to be the case as he has been dropped and all of a sudden BAR are right up there at the sharp end.
williams are looking are villeneuve for next season but there have been suspicions that the mechanics don't want to work with him because of his attitude.
schumacher IS the best driver in the world and therefore is able to show his superiority on and off the track. i don't think that makes him arrogant. that makes him someone to admire and copy.
schumi_84
29-05-2004, 03:06
I did like trulli as a driver, although he did seem to be a bit inconsistent (good in qualifying but not in the race) but personally i am a Schumi fan.
Woul dhave liked to have seen Button win, being English and all, but ti though that Trulli was a little bit ****y in the press conference afterwards.
What Schumi did was a little 'silly' to do it in the tunnel but Montoya should not have been goin so fast.
Nonetheless, it was a fantastic race, goin to see the German GP in Hockenheim, and i reckon at the moment Michael; is the only one to win the Championship.
Go on my son!
danielctull
29-05-2004, 08:22
What Schumi did was a little 'silly' to do it in the tunnel but Montoya should not have been goin so fast.
I think you'll find Montoya was going as fast as Schumacher in the tunnel. Well before Michael braked... :rolleyes:
schumi_84
29-05-2004, 08:35
Well he should have been watchin what was goin on instead of bein an arrogant fool like he usually is. Bein an F1 driver should mean that u anticipate wot the driver will do, and as the safety car was still out, he should have known that Michael was gonna slow down.
I have really disliked the guy since he came into formula 1, and i am very happy to see button doin better than him, in a car that theoretically should be inferior. Well done BAR and well done Frank Williams for getting rid of another good British driver.
danielctull
29-05-2004, 08:48
Well he should have been watchin what was goin on instead of bein an arrogant fool like he usually is. Bein an F1 driver should mean that u anticipate wot the driver will do, and as the safety car was still out, he should have known that Michael was gonna slow down.
There's slowing down and then there's braking unnessesarily to warm up your tires. Dark tunnel with the drivers wearing screened visors, yeah clever.
I think you'll find Schumacher has done this a fair few times before, all of which (I remember) he survived it, the chaser however, has many a time not done so and gone out of the race. I guess Michael was unlucky this time he did it.
schumi_84
29-05-2004, 17:05
That is true, but if it had been anybody else that had done it, no-one would really have said anything about it.
Not too bothered about it either way really, it was a shame that it happened, but after the start to the season he has had, something was gonna give at some point.
Just happy to see him top of the pile in the Nurburgring, with montoya only 8th. Well done to Sato, officially the happiest guy in F1, for getting second place.
The race should be a good one.
That is true, but if it had been anybody else that had done it, no-one would really have said anything about it.
If it had been anyone else that did it, they wouldn't have got away with it being called a "Racing Incident." :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Stephen
SilverSurfer
30-05-2004, 00:44
i don't think he's arrogant at all. for arrogance you just have to look to jacque villeneuve, there is an arrogant man, not michael.
he has his moments or smugness, just like any other driver does but he's always congratulating the other drivers and talks a lot of sence whenever i've seen him on camera.
there are drivers i don't like (montoya, coulthard, kimi) but micheal is a decent bloke in my eyes.
Could'nt agree more M8 :)
I wouldn't say I'm a fan of any formula 1 driver really, since they are all spoilt brats if you ask me. The degree of the display of their "brattishness" is where the comparisons end for me. Its not even a real sport in my eyes as most sports weed out the best via true competition between opponents from all walks of life. Formula 1 is an entertaining spectacle pure & simple in which every other week or there abouts a bunch of spoilt rich kids get together to ride around a track to the finish line on horses with wheels. :D
Since I've been watching the game personalities seem to range from the most arrogant of them all "Ayrton Senner" to without a doubt the most consummate professional formula 1 driver of modern times "Michael Schumaker" and everyone else is in between.
People often berate Shummi for his seemingly non colourful display of emotions however thats the mark of a true professional. If you are a true fan of any sport then the talent of play is all that should surely matter. Everything else is tabloid BS! :rolleyes:
I mean yeah! ....national pride may dictate that you may want your own countries Football team to win when they play Brazil in football but you would watch that match to see Brazil play the art of football.
Tennis is another case in point whereby Pete Sampras without a doubt, the finest tennis player of all times was also berated by the tabloids for his lack of being a colourful character. Sampras showed people the art of tennis while Anna Kornikova can't play tennis for s*%t and yet she's the highest payed female player.
I suppose when its all said and done you either watch a sport to satisfy your interest in the purity of the sport or you watch it for the chance of seeing a clown or two. The choice is yours. ;)
schumi_84
30-05-2004, 03:49
Hmmmmm, gonna have to disagree with u there.
Senna was and will be one of the only F1 drivers that stood out from the rest. He was the best driver of his time, and in no way was he arrogant. Yes he had a lot of confidence, cos he could push any car that he drove to the absolute limit, no matter what the consequences (i.e with prost, mansell, piquet etc).
Schumi on the other hand is one of the best drivers of all time, yes this might be a biased view, but if u look at him whenever he wins a race, he is as enthusiastic as if it were his first win.
He takes nothing for granted and knows that there will be racs where he is gonna have to drive his best to win. It is a shame that Senna and Schumi never got a real chance to race each other. In '94 Benetton was no where near the best car, and yes he may have won the championship using dirty tactics but it is no different to wot Senna and Prost did in '89 and '90. Schumi also missed a race in '94 and still managed to win the C'ship.
He deserves to be where he is now cos he put the work in early on, which is something that Ralf hasnt done.
SilverSurfer
30-05-2004, 14:54
I remember seeing Schumacher race in one of those old Benetton cars where he gave everyone a real run for their money in a car that was way out of league with Williams & Mclaren at that time. IIRC he was stuck in 5th gear with a stick shift while Senna and Mansel (I think) and most of the other drivers were using the stearing wheel paddle gear shifters. That was the 1st time I really started to think that he was going to blow all the competition away when he got the chance.
As far as Senna is concerned, I never really liked the guy even though I would admit that he was one of the best drivers of a racing car I've ever seen. I just could not bring myself to support a guy that was so arrogant, that he would often not only put his own life at risk with some of his 'on track' antics but he would think nothing of smashing into other drivers just to win the race. I remember when he actually admitted doing this to Prost to prevent him winning that particular years Championship with no apology. Prost later said he rhetorically suggested to Senna if it was all worth it...risking his and his fellow drivers lives for the mear reason of winning a race and that if he continued with those sort of tactics he would probably end up killing himself.
Hissy fit, tantrum throwing racers are free to do what they want off the track. What kind of fair competition can there be though if you have one guy willing to shoot you if he thinks he's going to lose. I would say that not only was he arrogant but he was also the worst kind of Bully and I have never liked bullies.
Mansel on the other was not a favourite driver of mine but he sure was a professional. I remember one of the best Formula 1 races I have ever seen at Monaco where Senna won but Mansel in his Williams was inches behind him for most of the race and not once did Mansel ever even accidently bang into the back of Senna. As it was Mansel almost fainted when he got out of the car cause he was pushing it so hard but what a fair guy...he allowed the viewers the chance to see a great spectacle of fair exciting racing. If that was Senna behind you can bet your ass he would have gotten so frustrated he would have knocked Mansel right off the track.
Oh! Yeah and on the notion of a Senna and Schumi match up. I think in Senna's last race he was actually trying to get away from Schumacher when the tragedy happened. Maybe Senna couldn't take the Schumi pressure behind and tried another crazy antic. We'll never know for sure what went on behind the scenes on his last corner.
Senna was undoubtedly a very contreversial driver and he was also very talented, there can be no dening that. Formula 1 did indeed lose one of the sports best ever drivers when he tragically died.
Although I never supported Senna I will admit that watching a race with him was never boring. He brought the air of unpredictability to the track which is sadly missing in todays grand prix. Maybe opening up the sport to regular folks would change all that. In any event as a spectacle Formula 1 seems to attract all sorts of fans from the purest to the story line driven plot seekers where the cast is full of characters from the villain to the hero and every story needs its villains. Senna for me was outstanding in that capacity.
slartiBardfarst
30-05-2004, 16:03
I think in Senna's last race he was actually trying to get away from Schumacher when the tragedy happened. Maybe Senna couldn't take the Schumi pressure behind and tried another crazy antic.
senna's steering column sheered off meaning he couldn't turn the wheels, hence he drove into the wall at 180mph. thats what killed him, not a 'crazy antic'.
SilverSurfer
30-05-2004, 16:24
I'm no conspiracy theorist and I have no reason to believe that one was implemented here but I suppose you could prove any theory after the fact especially when your evidence is a pile of rubble. :)
However you are quite correct those are the facts. ;)
slartiBardfarst
30-05-2004, 16:52
i read alot about this over the years and you'd be surprised how much work different bodies have put in to get to the bottom of the accident.
the car was re-constructed in the same way aircraft are after a crash and looking at the evidence both from the wreckage and from the video tapes it is actually quite clear exactly at what point the steering fails. you can see it in the tv footage and the steering column shows a torsion stress break which could never have happened during the crash because of the angles involved.
you can be as sure of that as you can about anything.
SilverSurfer
30-05-2004, 19:43
Thanks for that info. slartiBardfarst.... I didn't realise there was such a detailed diagnosis of the Senna situation. :)
schumi_84
30-05-2004, 20:16
After watching a documentary on senna's deah, the real reason why he died was because round the Tumberello, if u watch closely the car 'bottoms out' causing a complete lack of downforce. Senna felt the lack of downforce and instinctively turned into the direction the car was sliding. Unfortunately because of this the car was thrown into the wall.
They showed that there is a certain amount of 'play' in the steering column, but that is not the reason why he died.
schumi_84
30-05-2004, 20:41
Just a quick one really. Well done to Michael for winning at the Nurburgring.
Good to see that Monaco was just a one off, although a couple of times he did get a bit close to ppl coming out the pits :eek:
Hopefully it will continue for the rest of the season. Unlucky to Sato but well done to Button again.
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