View Full Version : DV Camcorders anyone
Whats the Best DV Camcorder around.
What features should i look for.
how quick will the info pass to the PC.
:confused:
The best DV camcorder around? That would set you back around the £15,000+ mark but I dare say you're not looking for that kind of equipment. If you are, then - http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Professional/webapp/ModelInfo?m=0&sm=0&p=2&sp=24&id=70133 or they do a wide screen version.
Alternatively, coming down a few (thousand) quid.. for the 2-3 grand semi-pro range, you'll be looking at either a Sony VX2100 which is around 3 grand(http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/sony-dcr-vx2100-camcorder-review.htm)
or the Canon XL-1S at a couple of hundred quid less.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005QF76/ref=br_lf_ce_1/026-9291796-8911668
For even fewer pennies, the Sony DCR-TRV950 at around 1400 quid is a good camera and still 3CCD (higher quality, better colour than single CCD cameras).
And then for a small handycam style camera, you can't go wrong with the Sony PC-110, which is the camera I have, until I get my XM2 or XL1S.
So it all depends on the money really!
What features? Is it going to be used for holiday filming? General use, making home videos, making professional videos? Weddings?
Features - DV IN and OUT. Which may sound ridiculous but the EU put a tax on camcorders with DV IN as they consider them to be video recorders so quite a few of the lower end models don't have DV IN, but you can get round this with a little gadget on some of them.
If you want the best quality, you want a 3CCD camera but they tend to cost a few hundred quid more but the quality is far superior with much better colour definition.
Other than that, a good lens, the option to add new lens adapters (zoom, wide angle etc.), any camera which advertises a 500x zoom or similar, ignore.. it's a digital zoom and the quality is going to be crap.
You're best sticking with either Sony or Canon as they tend to produce the best camcorders although there is a nice panasonic 3CCD camera for under a grand and well worth considering. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008VE21/ref=br_lf_ce_3/026-9291796-8911668
Give us a few ideas of it's use and I can probably be a bit more specific. If you want something for serious pro or semi pro use, you want to be spending a couple of grand on the canon xl1s or the vx2100 (or even vx2000), otherwise, about a grand and you're going to get something very good all the same.
How long does it take to transfer video? It's real time.. so 60 minutes of video will take 60 minutes, unless you get one of the cameras that use DVD-Rs.
Christ !!!
Eh - no.
I got a little gaming event were going in holland www.rzrlan.webhop.net wanna make a movie of it. good ladys says she will free funds for me..
Looking to spend top £400 Looking for a very small unit that takes Better than VHS Quality - good gear for Edititing and in gen playing around with.
I want it as a toy not as a hobby filming burds or anything ;)
Decent screen and batteries.
Seen a dinky one in Dixons i think Sumsung.
In general Just holiday stuff, thrown in with the odd video i decide to sex up and edit.
BTW... these things are just add tape - charge and shoot aint they. You dont need like Memory cards or ****>?
Do i need firewire ports?
Is the quality any good on these small ones? Cheers mate thanks for scaring the pants off me. :D
http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@2016048413.108245650 7@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccchadcldlfehjdcflgceggdhhmdfhl.0&page=Product&sku=915451&category_oid=-10652&fm=3&sm=5&tm=undefined
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005QF76.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
They throw in a free one of these to drive it around in lol
http://www.kunta-ripley.com/m_cars/2_usa/else/batmobile/05.jpg
:D
Touch that samsung camera with a barge pole! It is an absolutely horrific camera. It's 300 quid for a reason. It's utterly, utterly, utterly crap.
If you can afford a 400 quid, then this would suit you down to a tee.
http://products.sony.co.uk/productdetail.asp?id=11_61_6021
which you can get for £392.
http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/851-sony-dcr-hc20e-handycam.html?refid=kelkoo
Small, dv in and out, does stills and has a memory stick for stills. All you need! Here's a few reviews - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001BW0TC/103-0238524-3439052?v=glance&vi=customer-reviews
The quality on bottom end sony cameras tend to be still very good. You'll be really disappointed if you went for that samsung thing. I've never seen a positive review of them.
Yep, all you need is tapes and you're set. Tapes, cheap as.. and yeah, you need a firewire port which come with any recent computer or get a pci card for about a tenner.
Sorry to pester you...
How is battery life on these things?
What one do you have?
they say the screen is only black and white - how much more for a colour screen.
Is it really small like the others ?
People mention it being grainy indoors - how dark before its not worth recording. Is it hard wearing enough to go on roller coasters with me - Ski'ing. (note last time i broke my ribs on rocks at glencoe lol) Is there a great proformance leap if i up it by £100 ?
Is there any others in the price raneg you would recommend.
Finallly thanks for all your help kind sir. :cool:
Pester away! I love this sort of thing.. it's my "job on the side" of a sort. Not selling, but filming.
Battery life isn't too bad, but it's worth spending a few pennies on a second battery if you're going to be away for a while. The battery you'll get with it, expect around an hour and a half to two hours life, but that depends how much you use the external screen really. 2 hours tops when you use the view finder, hour and a half with the screen.
The flip out external screen on that model is colour but the view finder is black and white.
If you want something for a few more quid, that'll be smaller then something like this
http://products.sony.co.uk/productdetail.asp?id=11_61_6278
http://www.hiwayhifi.com/site/product.asp?section=5&cat=25&sub=69&prod=22215&ref=kelkoo
That one is about the same size as mine and mine is tiny.
What you're paying the extra money for with that one is it being a smaller form factor, and a better night shot.. but mainly it being small. The actual quality of the image is unlikely to be much better though.
The next model up from the first one I suggested would be this one
http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/851-sony-dcr-hc40e-handycam.html?refid=kelkoo
which is the same size but a higher resolution CCD, meaning better image quality. It's not going to be massively better to be honest.. If you want something small and discrete, then the PC107 would be spot on. If you want higher quality images, and we're not talking hugely higher quality, then the HC40 is your man.
I used mine in dark environments pretty regularly (gigs and such like) and it's really not that grainy, although mine cost me 1400 quid.
I've taken my camera with me mountainboarding and have had grit and water get into it and it still keeps chugging away. They are pretty hard wearing but you just have to be careful really.
Cheers :)
2Hrs isnt that bad considering that you will normal have it on only for snippets of movie making, mixed with longer sections to get the shot you want. Take it it would last a day or so on and off?
I just recon its decrete enough to have fun with :p
Like the look of that £450. But getting that sort of cash for the lady might prove more difficult than its worth.
Might just stick to the big fatty arbuckle Sony one :D
Why are folks going on about taking stills with it,
WHATS THE POINT IN THAT LOL :D
Not relevant but heres my dog with his shades on for Ski ing in Norway over x-mas
http://www.uploadit.org/tyrant/coolNicco.JPG
Oh yeah.. I rarely use my big 4 hour battery over a weekend if I'm really going for it. Usually charge the big battery up once and that does me for several weekends.
The big un isn't actually too big either.. you'd be surprised. Go to Jessops or somewhere, have a look and then buy it online.. All my suggestions are from personal experience, i've not really used JVC camcorders before, and only limited experience with Panasonic.. Canon make fantastic top end cameras but never really taken with the lower end ones. You really can't go wrong with Sony.
I used to use my camera to take loads of stills, it's got a 1.5mp stills camera built in but the quality really isn't the best. It's been used once or twice since I've bought my dedicated stills camera and only because batteries have been flat on the stills camera.. it is handy I suppose but yeah, you're buying a camcorder for the video facilities.
Anyway, I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of those three I suggested.. the sony software in the cameras are great.. really easy to use and you don't get stupid features surplus to requirement, such as 100000x digital zoom or 1000s of ridiculous effects and fades.
Talking of which.. here's a hint. NEVER EVER use the fades, titling or effects found on a camcorder. They're crap and if you want anything like that, do it in your editing software!
Cheers!
Welly
Sorry its been so long since i got back to you.
I havent purchsed a camera yet, But im getting one in August to go on our lan party trip to holland (www.rzrlan.webhop.net)
What do you think of the DCR HC14 ?? Whats the difference between it and the DCR HC 18 & Finally is it better or worse than the ones you showed me above.....
Again sorry to pester you but you really seem like the only person who really knows what they are talking about sir ;) ; :D ;) :rolleyes: :)
I think the difference between the two is simply size to be honest. The form factor for the HC18 looks a little smaller, but features wise, it they both look pretty identical. Both look good cameras, no DV in but thats not such a problem anymore, with the price of DVD writers coming right down.
What about it Vs the one you suggested?
brumster
15-06-2004, 18:10
Just to throw some other suggestions into the fray ;-), I've got a Sony but I've also got a Canon MV500i which is used for in-car camera recording, and I'm really impressed with the Canon range for value for money. Has DV in/out, analouge in (really useful for my purposes) and a lot of the features of the Sony. Granted the Sony has got touch-screen LCD, night mode, Carl Zeiss lens and a better quality feel (it's also minute) but bang-for-buck the Canon is brilliant. The mechanism looks very similar to the sony and even some of the firmware aspects look amazingly similar.
The MV500i has been replaced now with, I think, the 600i (or is it 660?) - Welly will know - but I imagine it's still in your price range. Battery life is reasonable with the standard battery too, 1hr30m if you don't use the LCD.
But what Welly says is good advice, yes.
When you're talking low end cameras, the real differences are more to do with the form factor than anything overly technical. If you compare the specs for all the cameras we've been talking about, they're all very very similar and probably use the same basic engine. They all use the same 1/6" CCD which will be identical throughout and all use Carl Zeiss lens which again will be identical. What it really comes down to is what additional functions you need.. do you really need "super nightshot plus"? Do you need the tiny form factor or could you get away with a slightly bigger and probably slightly more durable model. What I'd do is compare prices, and go for the one in the middle and you'll probably do alright. The Canon is another option, you'll not go wrong with it.. I'd personally always stick with canon or sony.. there's a nice 3 ccd panasonic model out now for about 550 notes but we're going out of your price range. Best thing, compare those three or four models spec/photo, see which one takes your fancy the most and go for it.. image quality wise, they're all going to be very very similar, if not identical.. the rest of it is just extra features you may or may not need/want.
Cheers!
Welly
PJ Matthews
15-06-2004, 23:53
Once you find the camera you want go to unbeatable.co.uk and check out their prices. Some of the undercuts on the cameras are truely amazing and tend to be more the sector of the market you are looking at.
Ok Heres the Choices.
http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_17530.html
http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_17531.html
http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_18579.html
http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/851-sony-dcr-hc20e-handycam.html?refid=kelkoo
http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/851-sony-dcr-hc40e-handycam.html?refid=kelkoo
Go on Choose for me PPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAASSSSSSSEEEEEEE :rolleyes: :) :p
BTW Is it ok to use those little screens to make movies through>? Dont they go blurry in sun shine so you have no idea what you have just taken a video of?
Do they all have little view finders? :confused:
If you can afford it, I'd go for the HC40.. basically because it's full of features. It does have features you might not use but then again, who knows, they might come in handy in the future. It really depends what you want to do.. if it is a camera just for holiday videos and just messing about with, save yourself a couple of quid and go for the HC18.. it's a good compromise and you'll save yourself 200 quid almost on that top spec model. However you might get into video and might find you could do with the extra features.. there's nothing on HC40 that will make your filming life any easier or better.. just has a couple of nice things (true 16:9 mode is wonderful!).
Geoff565
18-06-2004, 12:10
Hey TyranT,
I thought i'd make matters a little more complicated:) and recommend another Digi Camcorder, it's well worth having a looking at!
Panasonic have recently introduced a new range of digi camcorders, one of which being the GS-15. I know you've listed a range of Sony models there, however, lemme just highlight a couple of benefits with the Pana. Unlike the Sony's, the GS15 uses a 24X optical zoom, which is far more important than DIGITAL ZOOM. The sony Camcorders only use 10X optical, so you basically have an additional 14X opitcal zoom strenght.
The GS-15 uses SD Memory cards, which are a distinct advantage, as the Sony Mem sticks tend to be rather pricey, whereas SD cards can be considerably cheaper (ebuyer e.t.c)
Function wise, the GS15 has loads of digi effects, e.g Sepia, Colour Night Vision, Strobe, Old Film e.t.c.
Also, it's not badly priced, AJ electronics do it for £337.00 incl delivery. If you're not too happy ordering online, i know Jessops match online prices, so you can print a copy, they check for stock, and hey presto!
Hope that's not confused matters!:)
Cheers
Geoff
P.S the LCD Screens are used for recording/viewing, pretty much everything!
http://www.ajelectronics.co.uk/ViewProdDetails.asp?prod_code=PON04C000012&Prod_name=Panasonic+NV%2DGS15+MiniDV+Digital+Camco rder&cat_names=Camcorders%20>>%20Mini%20DV
PJ Matthews
18-06-2004, 20:45
I would also recommend that camera but noticed you only seemed to be picking Sonys. The Panasonic is very good value for money.
PJ
I'm going from personal experience of dv cameras.. I've mainly worked with sony and canon cameras of varying capabilities.. I've not really used panasonic cameras but from what I understand some of them are pretty capable however the low end ones don't tend to shine so much. They do a 3 CCD camera for less than 600 quid which is amazing really, the GS120.
I don't think the Panasonic camera using SD memory cards is really much of an advantage, simply because you're buying a DV camera for it's video capabilities firstly and foremostly rather than it's still image capabilities. And besides the GS-15 only takes VGA quality stills. Any extra features like still images really should be a bonus not something that should be high on the list of priorities when buying a video camera.
Best thing to do is to go into your local dixons/jessops/currys and try them out. Like I say, I only really know canon and sony cameras and the video camera press has a tendancy to rate these cameras really highly which is why I'd personally go for one of those, but then thats just me.
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